"Acquiring" Items

[DadOfFour]

Then why would the OP use weasel words like "acquiring."

It was a euphemism for pete's sake

Dead or not, taking other people's property still is theft.

Really? So you come across a dead person in the woods, their bag is full of canned goods....it would be theft to take those canned good to feed yourself and your family?

If I were starving would I steal food? Probably. Would I steal it from someone else who was starving? I really don't know.

Who said anything about stealing food from somebody who is starving?

Would I say "well, I can't afford to stock everything now so I'll steal a better truck if I get the opportunity"? No.

Really, so the world has ended, your vehicle has sh*t the bed and you're still 400miles from where you need to be to ensure your family's survival, there's a car lot sitting there with a whole bunch of vehicles that nobody is going to sell, you wouldn't take one, thereby giving your family a better chance of survival? No instead you'd dump the majority of your preps since you can't transport them on foot, and hope your family can hike the 400 miles....good luck

Justify it any way you want, it's still theft. Is it right or wrong, I can't say because of the exigent circumstances, but it's still theft. And the Omega Man situation is about the only one I see where there won't be a return to some form of law, and history bears this out.

How many times do I have to say it, I'm talking about a true TEOTWAWKI situation. Society is GONE, government is GONE.

 

[DadOfFour]

So instead of learning how to make what you need or make it makeshift, you're plan is simply to steal what you need. It's your character, you justify it any way you want. It'll make you feel better driving around that shiny new truck.

"A lack of proper planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part."

You want to try to trash my character you go right ahead. What I'm saying is that in TEOTWAWKI I will do whatever it takes to make sure my kids are ok. The truck thing was an example, not like I'm sitting here casing dealerships for christ's sake. But if I'm halfway to my BOL and my car dies am I going to look at the feasibility of getting another ride to get there...yep yep I am and I make no apologies about it either. Quite frankly, if you're not willing to do what it takes to protect your family and ensure they survive after TEOTWAWKI then that says allot about YOUR character!

 

[shibumiseeker]

You want to try to trash my character you go right ahead.

I've made my peace with my own character, seems to me you're the one getting defensively worked up about yours. If you came here seeking external justification for your actions then I'm sure there are many who will be happy to soothe your inner questions about them. Just as there are many who will call you a thief for them. I'm not trashing your character, I've done things in my life I'm not proud of, but I'm also going to call you on your euphemisms and point out alternatives. If you can't bear the harsh realities of calling a theft theft then your mental preparation for a true TEOTWAWKI situation is lacking.

 

[shibumiseeker]

How many times do I have to say it, I'm talking about a true TEOTWAWKI situation. Society is GONE, government is GONE.

As long as there is more than one person around, there will be some type of governance.

 

[buckstopshere]

I wouldn't worry too much about acquiring the items you need in the event of TEOTWAWKI at Walmart or any department store for that matter. All that will be gone within days and I'm guessing not safe to travel into anyway.

You have the basics covered, you'll have some time before your kids need new clothing and shoe items. I would first suggest that you check out the goodwill and salvation army. TEOTWAWKI, fashion is right out the window. Preposition this stuff at your BOL so its there when you need it. You can get shoes in every conceivable size for cheap. Fill a large trash can full of those items (or a couple if needed) and head out to BOL now.

TEOTWAWKI, there will unfortunately be lots of dead bodies around I would assumed still clothed. If they haven't been picked over, take what you need. It's called scavenging and I personally see nothing immoral about that nor would I consider it thievery. If I were dead, I would want someone to take whatever valuable items I had to advance their survival. Taking from the living OTH would be wrong IMO.

To address your specific question bluntly, I wouldn't make an attempt to "acquire" anything from a store more out of a sense of your own immediate safety as well as the fact that it's still stealing.

 

[DadOfFour]

If you are just going to loot like the rest of the parasites than why prep at all! Prepping is ment to keep you and your family safe and out potentially deadly situations. All I know is looters will be the first to get a shotgun in their face by me. Sorry of your finances are not conducive to prepping properly but than again neither is any of ours. It takes time and some money and we look at almost every purchase as how does it fit into our daily life as well as prepping life. Instead of planning the looting route why not learn how to sew clothing as an added skill, why not purchase a used truck at a decent price now (we all know that you will make use of it). My point is if you begin to loot you will pribobly wind up dead and your kids will have no father in a completely moral less society. I am prepped so that I can help rebuild society not help degrade it!

Since you have the basics covered in order to provide the immediate needs of your family, I would suggest you consider bartering for the on-going needs of your family such as clothes for your kids. Remember, your kids aren't the only kids that are growing out of their clothes, shoes, etc. The clothes they have outgrown may be just the size for a family with younger kids that have also grown out of their clothes. Trade some of the clothes your kids have outgrown to a family that needs them. In return get something back (maybe medicine, food, tools, etc.) that you can then trade to another family with older kids that have outgrown their clothes. Most people after SHTF will have needs. I expect once things settle a bit people will come together to barter. Also, you may have skills that you can use to barter with, if not you still may have time to learn some skills that will be needed after SHTF.

Another idea is to put aside some money now to buy cloth, thread, etc., that you or your wife can later sew into the clothes your kids will need.

Just something to consider...

I have prepped (and continue to prep every day) it's a lifestyle I've been leading for more than 10 years. I'm talking about things you've overlooked, things that for whatever reason you couldn't put back. Oh, and I do know how to sew, and I have rolls of fabric put back, but eventually that stuff WILL run out and everyone will be forced to make hard choices.

I've made my peace with my own character, seems to me you're the one getting defensively worked up about yours. If you came here seeking external justification for your actions then I'm sure there are many who will be happy to soothe your inner questions about them. Just as there are many who will call you a thief for them. I'm not trashing your character, I've done things in my life I'm not proud of, but I'm also going to call you on your euphemisms and point out alternatives. If you can't bear the harsh realities of calling a theft theft then your mental preparation for a true TEOTWAWKI situation is lacking.

Please remember your high horse attitude when your family is starving to death because you've eaten through your preps and your garden flooded out, don't you dare even THINK about taking the food your kids need to survive, after all that would compromise your impeccable morals

As long as there is more than one person around, there will be some type of governance.

At best that comment is naive, at worst is negligent in your job to protect your family.

 

[rockhopper46038]

I'm not going to fault you for taking things that allow you and your family to survive; but I'm not going to fault the person you are stealing from for shooting you and your family in the head, either. You are justifying normally immoral acts as necessary to protect your family, and so is he.

 

[cerebus85]

I don't think this should be looked at from a legal aspect but from a moral point on survival. Obviously none of us want to kill and steal to survive but if something is not being used, or is being monopolized by unscrupolous individuals then what would stop any of you from protecting and providing for your family?

 

[ctbreitwieser]

Im kinda jumping in on this one a little late, but to all you who say you wouldnt loot no matter what the situation, I'm throwing the BS flag. There is no way that you're gonna tell me if you or your family was starving that you wouldnt take food if you knew where it could be found. You may think you're prepared, but IMHO, if you arent mentally prepared to get the items you need in a certain circumstance, then you are not prepared at all.

Now I am by no means saying that looting should be your first choice, or a choice at all for that matter, but I believe it is necessary to at least prepare yourself mentally for a situation in which you may need to do so. You never know when a situation will arise where your current preps become left behind or over run.

 

[DadOfFour]

I'm not going to fault you for taking things that allow you and your family to survive; but I'm not going to fault the person you are stealing from for shooting you and your family in the head, either. You are justifying normally immoral acts as necessary to protect your family, and so is he.

I agree, which is why taking from another individual would be an absolute last resort. I was specifically talking about what would in "civilized" society be referred to as looting. I've got an emergency credit card, has a $15k limit on it and the plan is to buy as much last minute stuff as possible, if I end up having to pay the bill down the road so be it (ie society somehow reconstructs itself and Visa survives and bills me lol) But there comes a point when cash/ccs are no good anymore yet the local big box store still has things on its shelves that could be useful even though the big box store has ceased to exist and there are no longer people working there. What seems to have been lost to many people in this post is that THAT was the question, when does looting become not looting but doing what is necessary to help you and yours survive?

I don't think this should be looked at from a legal aspect but from a moral point on survival. Obviously none of us want to kill and steal to survive but if something is not being used, or is being monopolized by unscrupolous individuals then what would stop any of you from protecting and providing for your family?

 

[churchmouse]

When the Flying Feces Hits the rotating oscillator Wally World will be over run with Zombies in moments as will Miejers, krogers, Marsh and name a store, any store. With out being heavily armed and going in numbers these places will be deadly and more dangerous than any place in the city. Desperation and madness will be the order of the day. Last minute is not a good idea in my most humble opinion. If you do make it outside the Zombies will strip you of your goods in moments not unlike a school of Piranha.

 

[strahd71]

When the Flying Feces Hits the rotating oscillator Wally World will be over run with Zombies in moments as will Miejers, krogers, Marsh and name a store, any store. With out being heavily armed and going in numbers these places will be deadly and more dangerous than any place in the city. Desperation and madness will be the order of the day. Last minute is not a good idea in my most humble opinion. If you do make it outside the Zombies will strip you of your goods in moments not unlike a school of Piranha.

very true but i think the OP was just trying to use it as an example not a plan. he if i am right was trying to differentiate between salvaging at a place and not from individual people.

but yes stay away from walmart and the mall unless u want to die

jake

 

[churchmouse]

very true but i think the OP was just trying to use it as an example not a plan. he if i am right was trying to differentiate between salvaging at a place and not from individual people.

but yes stay away from walmart and the mall unless u want to die

jake

No knock on the OP. I have read his posts before and it is usually about the welfare of his kids. I see his point and trust me, all of you, we will do as we must regardless. No pre-planned looting or law breaking in my post. Just the reality of it.

 

[strahd71]

No knock on the OP. I have read his posts before and it is usually about the welfare of his kids. I see his point and trust me, all of you, we will do as we must regardless. No pre-planned looting or law breaking in my post. Just the reality of it.

i aint gonna lie about. i prep what i can and hope to never be in that situation but i wont see my kids starve because of principle

flame away i dont care

jake

 

[Kmcinnes]

What need clarification is whether he will be looting or savaging, if you are hitting Wally , krogers and so world as the SHTF that would in my book be looting and adding to the moral decay. If the dust settled and it was defenetly TEOTWAWKI and you are walking through the woods and find someone deceased with a bag full of food, ammo and guns and you take it then in my book you are savaging to survive. We will at some point all be scavengers but at what point in the situation depends on how prepared you are. Morally I will protect what is for my family but I refuse to stoop down to the level of maggots at the onset. Again that's the point of prepping!

 

[jeremy]

A couple of thoughts...

1.) Indiana, especially Rural Indiana, has a fairly high percentage of Combat Arms Veterans mainly Army and Marines...
2.) Indiana has a pretty decent population of SOCOM Veterans...
3.) Persons attempting to "acquire" from me and mine will be dealt with very swiftly...
4.) Just an FYI, most persons in the first two notes, don't really advertise what they may be capable of doing...

So bring it if you think Me and Mine might be easy meat. I can always use your Gear...

 

[shibumiseeker]

Please remember your high horse attitude when your family is starving to death because you've eaten through your preps and your garden flooded out, don't you dare even THINK about taking the food your kids need to survive, after all that would compromise your impeccable morals



At best that comment is naive, at worst is negligent in your job to protect your family.

I'm not sure why you would think I have impeccable morals, I never said that I would never do such things I just said I'm not planning to do these things first, nor if I were would I be talking about them on an open forum. If I steal to survive I will happily embrace the label thief and not wrap it up in euphemisms. My high horse comes from thinking your planning priorities are seriously flawed and far more likely to get you or your family killed. But I'm sure you'll do what you think is best at the time and if you're lucky you may survive them.

 

[jeremy]

I'm not talking about illegal acts, I'm talking about doing what needs to be done to keep my children alive. I'm not talking about a Katrina type situation, I'm talking about a true TEOWAWKI situation.

What happens when you don't come back from your little "Shopping Trip" who will keep your family alive then?!

I'm not talking about taking from my neighbors, I'm talking about, say Wally World, the place WILL be looted post TEOTWAWKI so the question becomes when is it ok to get what you need without waiting too long so there's nothing left. Also, I'm not basing my preps on stealing, I'm talking about supplementing existing preps.

By the time you have the need to scavenge the Wal-Marts the will be nothing but empty burnt out buildings...

Sooooo, the only option will be trying to loot someone else's supplies. Assaulting a secured location, would require a 10:1 ratio to even have a chance of success. Then I would be willing to wager that would still be a failure...

But hey WTF do I know, I am just a Dumb Mechanic...

 

[dudley0]

If it is a "Book Of Eli" situation where society as a whole has collapsed and you walk up to a long since abandoned store then yes, finders keepers.

Keep in mind that the same store could likely be a wonderful place for the zombies to lie in wait for people that have a few preps but are looking for more.

Pre-planning is as best as I can do right now. I just recently lost my W2 which is a small scale SHTF event waiting to happen. We still have preps and still plan to stock more items.

Seeing an event preparing to unfold on the news would not be enough to make me jump to looting so I could finish the preps. Well, unless the weather man was the one who mentioned it, because the weather man is never wrong and all other news is always hyped.

Would hate to see on the news that an asteroid was going to crash into Indiana. I would probably rabbit the hell out of Dodge, but would I start looting before the fact? What if they were wrong?

Long after the fact, who can really say? Walking up on a dead prepper with lots of goodies and taking them today is stealing. After the fall maybe at least look around for the guys family and then it is another story.

 

[bwframe]

To the OP,

What are your skills? Can you make guaranteed one shot kills out to 350 yards? I may have a place for you and your kids. I'll be looking for GOOD perimeter protection. No room for looters around here. Your kids know how to run a shovel right?