"Acquiring" Items

[bwframe]

...I've seen this type of discussion get shot down quickly in the past as it is discussing illegal behaviors.

The looting concept seems to have a lot more detractors than takers. As long as INGOers don't jump on the thug bandwagon, the topic appears to be educational.

 

[jeremy]

The looting concept seems to have a lot more detractors than takers. As long as INGOers don't jump on the thug bandwagon, the topic appears to be educational.

Wait, what this is an educational thread...

I am in the wrong sub-forum...

 

[churchmouse]

Have you ever seen a Society Collapse?!

I am far from being a the Super Survival guy, I do have over a Decade in Combat though I might be doing something right there. There have been a couple of us that have been there and seen what happens, try to discuss this with you. You automatically assume that we are ****ing idiots.

But hey WTF do I know, I am just a Dumb ****ing Mechanic after all..

Started to say something but thought better of it.......Carry on.

I thought you were just an "Old Machanic"..................

 

[churchmouse]

i wonder if you can kill them with a ruler or yard stick?

jake

I will ask my kids, they went to Catholic schools.

 

[Cpt Caveman]

I think the good part of people kinda precludes most folks from admitting the things they feel they may have to do in bad situations. I mean most folks don't sit around and talk about how they'd kill your 90 year old granny to get to her stash of canned goods because their kids haven't eaten in two weeks.
The thing is that society doesn't work without the Rule Of Law. Once you start talking about doing things outside the rule of law while the ROL still exists you're gonna be looked at as a thief. If you ARE a thief already then stealing in teotwawki is no big deal. If you aren't already a thief, well, I think the situation will dictate what you have to do. Your moral compass ( or lack thereof ) will have to guide you.
Its just a slippery slope and once you start down it folks don't know where you will draw the line.
Do you " salvage " the items in the old lady's house next door when you realize her diabetes meds ran out and she died? What if her place is the BOL for the rest of her family? What do you do when they show up looking for their mommy? Who's stuff is it now?
It would be bad if you mis timed your grab and go run and ended up being the last guy to get arrested by the now splintered police force. Left to rot in an unmanned jailhouse. Then what would your family do? Just not a good idea to rely on stealing stuff as any aspect of your preps.

And on top of all that I think you just want somebody to tell you that stealing to support your family is OK. A few will.
Most won't. Thank God for that.

 

[Ted]

Timothy Leary once stated his observations in an interview, asking if a man could be unethical and/or immoral, but still within the confines of the law; as well as if a man could be ethical and/or moral, but outside the law. Of course, we all know the answer to both questions are in the affirmative.

This thread just keeps reminding me of the news footage of the post Katrina looting: The people that remained behind in New Orleans, some breaking into stores and taking groceries and bottled water; while others broke into stores to take such items as electronics and clothing.

Both instances were illegal, but everyone here can decide for themselves if the former was really unethical, immoral, or criminal.

 

[CarmelHP]

Regardless, you prep your way, I'll continue to prep my way, and if I have to steal to supplement my preps and allow my kids to survive then that's what I'll do, and I'll sleep well that night, and when my time comes I'll stand before my God and let him judge me.

If planning on stealing is part of your "prepping" then you'll stand for judgment before your God much sooner than you expected.
I thought it was clear: Thou shalt not steal.

 

[LEaSH]

There is a very easy way to avoid getting a smack down from the Big Guy: Do your own preps until you can't prep anymore. You have no excuse.

You know the ****'s going to happen in your mind. Make no excuse for not having all that you should have in the first place. I don't care if you have 1 child to feed or 10. It is your responsibility.

 

[CarmelHP]

And I'm sure that the way things went in Mogadishu, or Sarajevo, or Baghdad, or Kabull will be exactly how things happen in rural central USA right? NO chance that things might go differently, especially if it's not a war that trigger the collapse.
Never called you a ****ing idiot, however I will say you're a cocky big mouth with your threats of stripping my corpse, or taking my gear after you kill me, sh*t like that isn't conducive to a civil discussion of possibilities, especially given that you know nothing of me nor of my background..... Take your chest pounding elsewhere please. BTW, from personal experience, those that talk the most sh*t about what a badass they are are normally the ones cowering in their foxhole with p*ss streaming down their legs when sh*t pops off. But, whatever man, I'm done trying to have a conversation with you, it's like arguing with a brick wall, doesn't accomplish anything and gives me a headache.

Why did you ask here if you just wanted you pre-conceived notions affirmed? (I see "shooter" status in your future) You already know what you're going to do. Just don't be surprised to be bleeding and gasping out your last breaths in front of your kids about 5 minutes out of the gate.

 

[Ted]

Anybody else remember this particular conversation?

James Pepper: "You know, there's an old saying, Miss Sally. There's no law west of Dodge and no God west of the Pecos. Right, Mr. Chisum?"

John Chisum: "Wrong, Mr. Pepper. Because no matter where people go, sooner or later there's the law. And sooner or later they find God's already been there."

 

[DadOfFour]

There is a very easy way to avoid getting a smack down from the Big Guy: Do your own preps until you can't prep anymore. You have no excuse.

You know the ****'s going to happen in your mind. Make no excuse for not having all that you should have in the first place. I don't care if you have 1 child to feed or 10. It is your responsibility.

Again, I have been prepping for over 10 years thank you very much. So I should assume from your post that you have enough food to feed your family from now until the end of time correct? If not you're going to be forced to acquire more food for them at some point, be that by rifling through abandoned stores, plundering the dead, etc. I have well over 2 years of food put back for my family, and the ability to grow/hunt for more after that, but what happens if the game animals are scarce and the garden gets hit with some aphid or other bug, does that mean I throw up my hands and say, "Oh gee well, I tried, sorry guys we're not going to survive the winter, we'll all starve by sometime in February." Is that what you'd tell your family?

Why did you ask here if you just wanted you pre-conceived notions affirmed? (I see "shooter" status in your future) You already know what you're going to do. Just don't be surprised to be bleeding and gasping out your last breaths in front of your kids about 5 minutes out of the gate.

My preconceived notions about what? Do I think scavenging will be a fact of life for EVERYONE after TEOTWAWKI? Yep I do, and that's what this thread was meant to address. Specifically do you try to scavenge before it's an absolute necessity in the hopes of getting better/more of what you're going to end up needing, or do your morals make you wait until it's a scavenge or die type of situation. Unfortunately lots of people want to pound their chest and say "Try to take my sh*t boy and me and my badass group of Special Forces Ninja Warriors will kill you dead and use your skull as a soup bowl." Even though that is NOT what I was talking about, and made that clear on MULTIPLE occasions.

Anybody else remember this particular conversation?

James Pepper: "You know, there's an old saying, Miss Sally. There's no law west of Dodge and no God west of the Pecos. Right, Mr. Chisum?"

John Chisum: "Wrong, Mr. Pepper. Because no matter where people go, sooner or later there's the law. And sooner or later they find God's already been there."

True, God will always be there, and if it comes to that then God will judge me as He sees fit. As for the law, my concern is the years of complete lawlessness after the world ends. Be it 5 years, 10, 60 or whatever it ends up being.

 

[Electronrider]

The more you prep, the less you have to worry about stealing and killing others for basic survival.

Once you have to go to "wild animal surviving in the jungle" your odds of actually surviving go down significantly.

You have several years of food, enough guns and ammo for a small army, a great bugout location, blah blah blah. All that comes to an end because you wanted a nice new pickup truck right when the balloon is going up, and while in the dealers lot, Big D and his homies take you out. Congrats, you just wasted a lifetime of preps.

 

[DadOfFour]

I think the good part of people kinda precludes most folks from admitting the things they feel they may have to do in bad situations.

And I think that those who aren't prepared to do distasteful things aren't mentally prepared to survive a TEOTWAWKI situation.

The thing is that society doesn't work without the Rule Of Law.

And we're talking about a situation where not only the ROL, but society as we know it no longer exists.

And on top of all that I think you just want somebody to tell you that stealing to support your family is OK. A few will.
Most won't. Thank God for that.

Most definitely not, if that's what I wanted I wouldn't work a gazillion hours a week to support my family. However I will say that there is a CLEAR moral difference between stealing to support your family now, and stealing/scavenging to keep your family alive after a complete societal collapse; especially if you have prepped for years and done everything in your power to be prepared. This thread was meant to talk about the second.

 

[CarmelHP]

Again, I have been prepping for over 10 years thank you very much. So I should assume from your post that you have enough food to feed your family from now until the end of time correct? If not you're going to be forced to acquire more food for them at some point, be that by rifling through abandoned stores, plundering the dead, etc. I have well over 2 years of food put back for my family, and the ability to grow/hunt for more after that, but what happens if the game animals are scarce and the garden gets hit with some aphid or other bug, does that mean I throw up my hands and say, "Oh gee well, I tried, sorry guys we're not going to survive the winter, we'll all starve by sometime in February." Is that what you'd tell your family?

So, what are you going to do? If you think that there are just going to be tons of unclaimed supplies around, you're kidding yourself. Start stealing from others trying to survive and you'll be dead soon enough, and it won't take a rifle company to do it.

 

[Kmcinnes]

Again, I have been prepping for over 10 years thank you very much. So I should assume from your post that you have enough food to feed your family from now until the end of time correct? If not you're going to be forced to acquire more food for them at some point, be that by rifling through abandoned stores, plundering the dead, etc. I have well over 2 years of food put back for my family, and the ability to grow/hunt for more after that, but what happens if the game animals are scarce and the garden gets hit with some aphid or other bug, does that mean I throw up my hands and say, "Oh gee well, I tried, sorry guys we're not going to survive the winter, we'll all starve by sometime in February." Is that what you'd tell your

That is why you learn skills now that will benefit you and your family then, you make alliances with people here on ingo that you could trade either items or services with or for. If your crop gets infested with aphids, than you work with communities around you to solve the problem and feed you family. Do you honestly think that after your two years of eating your preps that you are going walk into an abandoned corner mart and find even a scrap of food let alone it be edible? Long term servival is going to require communities to re-form, and in that there will be law and order. Civilized people will all start pulling their recourses and form tight communities in order to provide safety, food, skilsl and so on. When I say communities I don't mean the 10 people you bug out with, It's been proven throughout time....Natives had tribes, we have towns and communities, animals have packs. I guess I can see it if you and your family were the only ones left on the face of the planet during TEOTWAWKI, but I don't see that as being the case because if it is truly TEOTWAWKI and an asteroid is going to wipe out the planet.....than screw looting for food, I am going to enjoy every last moment with my family knowing the end is near! What I am gathering from what I have read here (and i dont know you from adam so i could be wrong)is you have your mind made up, you do not trust or want to rely on others that are outside of your group....I get that but in a long term shtf you are going to have to rely on others in order for your family to survive. I am a father and I tell you what..... call it the high horse I might be on but I want my children to understand that morals still apply in order for them to help rebuild a society again and not have the take from the haves and give to have nots attitude like our current politicians ignoring the rule of law. Like others have said I would do whatever I have to for my kids, but in my mind now I plan and prep for it so I don't have to put myself in that situation, and yes one way or another we are all going to die and meet our maker whether during shtf or not, so all of my actions before and after will reflect those morals period!

 

[churchmouse]

Have to agree with Kmcinnes on this one. It will take more than you or a group of 10 to make it out the back side of a long term SHTF scenario. We as a group could number twice that and feel it is still light even in a 60 day scenario just for the sake of security. If we stayed put in the city the Zombies would be an issue 24/7 so there would be rotating security to set up and maintain and that would be 2 or more on watch after dark. As much as we would like to stay put I just do not see that happening in long term. We have 3 BOL's and would eventually end up at one of them after we gathered everyone up. Hard to say how long a person or group of persons could maintain a level of Moral civility. A lot would depend on the situation and what the faced daily. If forced to fight for your survival it would not take long for your outlook and Morality to alter.

 

[bwframe]

Next question for DadOfFour;
What happens when you wake up two weeks after balloon day to find Dad-Of-Five boosting your newly stolen SUV?

Do you let him have it cause he needs it (one kid) worse?
Do you let him have it cause it's white and looks like a service vehicle, thinking it doesn't belong to an individual?
Do the "rules" change now that's its "your stuff"?

 

[Dirtebiker]

i wonder if you can kill them with a ruler or yard stick?

jake

Can you kill a Ninja with a throwing star? Those nuns will beat you like an eraser, and rap you on the head with those rulers until you succumb!!!

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Maybe you need to work on your reading skills? Did you somehow miss the multitude of posts where I specifically said I wasn't talking about taking things from individuals?


Only one post addressed what I was actually talking about, everyone else has been talking about moral issues with what I was talking about, and as already stated, the luxury of morals is something we won't have when the balloon goes up.



Actually, I'm already involved in a group, we have "hunters", gatherers, current and ex military, a doctor, two nurses, a mechanic, and a couple home makers.

Since your OP referenced getting your kids clothes & shoes, may I suggest that you either: 1) start stockpiling larger size clothing for your kids - Goodwill and Salvation Army are good sources; or 2) stockpile cloth and sewing materials and plan on making/re-making clothing as needed. If you end up in a long-term survival situation, likely there will be enough stuff laying around loose (because a sizable fraction of the current will not survive) that you will be able to safely scavenge or barter with others for what you need. Better wait until the bullets haven't been flying for a month or two before you start scavaging, though.

 

[Mosinguy]

Can you kill a Ninja with a throwing star?

Not in Indiana