A Farewell to Arms (Why I jumped off the Glock bandwagon)

[J_Wales]

1911!

 

[LLDJR]

I now have the M&P Compact 40 for the exact reasons that you mention, I too have had many Glocks but I am down to one, a G-23,,

 

[lovemachine]

Since I can shoot my M&P9c better than my Glock 19, I have been considering doing the same thing esrice did. Sell my G19, and buy a M&P 9.

So, over the weekend, I shot my Glock 19. I still feel confident in making accurate hits with it. Yes, I can still shoot my M&P9c better, but I still like my Glock 19. I am just unsure if I SHOULD get rid of it.

I wish I could shoot a full size M&P9. But until then, I'll keep shooting my Glock and figure out what to do.

 

[esrice]

I wish I could shoot a full size M&P9. But until then, I'll keep shooting my Glock and figure out what to do.

I got my M&P today so I can arrange a side-by-side. This stock M&P trigger is going to have to go though-- yuck!

 

[gglass]

I got my M&P today so I can arrange a side-by-side. This stock M&P trigger is going to have to go though-- yuck!

Congrats!

Did you already get the Apex Hard Sear and RAM? Those are the two most essential trigger upgrades... The others are just icing on the cake.

If you order the Apex RAM, be sure to know whether you have the model with the magazine disconnect or not.

 

[lovemachine]

I got my M&P today so I can arrange a side-by-side. This stock M&P trigger is going to have to go though-- yuck!

Great!


It's amazing how big a difference the Apex kit makes! I'm still unsure why S&W makes them that way...

 

[esrice]

Did you already get the Apex Hard Sear and RAM?

I was thinking I'd go with the full DCAEK. The M&P I used for testing had 2 of those 3 components. The RAM has me curious.

 

[gglass]

I was thinking I'd go with the full DCAEK. The M&P I used for testing had 2 of those 3 components. The RAM has me curious.

You MUST get the RAM if you are used to the reset click of the Glock. That click was the only thing about my old Glocks that I missed. I was thrilled that Apex found a solution to the indistinct reset of the M&P.

 

[esrice]

You MUST get the RAM if you are used to the reset click of the Glock. That click was the only thing about my old Glocks that I missed. I was thrilled that Apex found a solution to the indistinct reset of the M&P.

For $23 I suppose I can't NOT try it.

 

[lovemachine]

I have the DCAEK.
https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid35.html

I wasn't aware of the RAM, or even knew what it was, until now....

 

[mk2ja]

esrice, I hope that you will post a nice review thread once you finish your modifications to the M&P. I'd love to hear what you did to it to make it "carry worthy." So far, the only thing I *know* I'm going to do is get night sights for it, but I'm open to more improvements.

 

[gglass]

I have done most of the Apex mods on several M&P's. The only one I have not tried yet is the Forward Set Sear and Trigger. I will likely have to do that upgrade to one of my older M&P's.

The only mod I have not done to my newest M&P40 Pro Series is the rounded Striker Block. I have found that any additional smoothing of the trigger that it provides is not worth the additional hassle of removing the rear sight to get it done. I've found that judicious polishing of the trigger bar contact point and a lot of firing gets the smoothness that most are trying to achieve anyway.

If you are going to be changing your sights, this is a good time to replace the Striker Block with a rounded Apex part or round it off yourself... That is what I did with my other M&P's.

 

[Gamez235]

Switched from Glock to M&P, then back to Glock? Why?

I switched for all the same reasons you did but...

I like just about every M&P owner felt the trigger needed work, and considered the APEX parts. First and foremost, if I need to make mechanical improvements to the gun right off the bat, something is wrong. Also, after some discussion with people much more versed in all things legal, a firearm where the internal components have been modified opens you up to worlds of legal ramifications, especially if not done by a "qualified gunsmith". So that immediately made me rethink the whole platform. You are literally changing parts that void your warranty and that S&W did not intend to be in the gun. Don't modify a pistol's trigger, mechanical, or safety features you carry that may one day shoot a bad guy, innocent by stander, or yourself.. PERIOD! (You know how Kirk says, "Don't touch your gun", well this is my niche issue. A person I know was invloved in shooting, and very early on the lawyer for the "bad guy" brought up if the pistol had been modified in any manner, which the owner had done some "tinkering at home to the trigger" and he was royally bent over and F*cked. Pistol came back from the factory and was labeled that "non-factory approved modifications" has been performed.)

It's a bigger gun, period. You can make all the size comparison's you want, but it's bigger. You really want to see how much.. Compare a Raven Phantom for each one and lay them side by side. Yeah sure the gun is a hair bigger, but then also the holster is a hair bigger, and before you know it, all those hairs add up on you.

I implore you to not just run those guns statically. When I ran them both at a range in a non stressful situation I made the distinctions you did. The grip was slimmer, my hands could ride higher, etc.. Once I starting training with it, all those become irrelevant quickly. I found myself not nit picking the grip improvements or any of the "magazine review" technical aspects. It didn't improve my reloads, my ability to get it in or out of the holster, and when moving my groups were still pretty much the same.

The yellow lever to take it down, NO-GO! I should be able to field strip it with out tools and that one requires one. Enough said.

Magazines, they are out there, but not in the numbers the Glock is. I shouldn't be forced to deal with the questionable establishment that Botach is for cheap mags. We as a shop rarely get them in to boot. I can order 1000 G19 mags and have them in 2-3 days for 1/2 what the S&W mags go for usually.

Suppressors, I run them alot. My Glock 19 cycles everybody's can and booster fine. I've has a myriad of issues with the M&P with SWR cans.

Evan, lets hit the range.. I won't let you stand still and think... You'll run those two super hard and after the day is done, maybe you'll see what I did...

*Before everyone jumps my chops and calls me a Glock fan boy. I hate the grip on the G19, seriously, it blows... I dare a company to make a gun as simple and well thought out with a better grip.. I'll buy a 100...

 

[esrice]

If you are going to be changing your sights, this is a good time to replace the Striker Block with a rounded Apex

This is good to know, thank you.

Sounds like I should order the new sights also and have everything installed at the same time.

Here's what I'm thinking for sights: Warren Tactical Sight, Tritium Front/Plain Rear Mix for S&W M&P

 

[mk2ja]

The yellow lever to take it down, NO-GO! I should be able to field strip it with out tools and that one requires one. Enough said.

What's this about a take-down tool? I know there are a lot of variations to the M&P pistol line; do some models require a tool to field strip it? Mine doesn't.

 

[cornfused]

You can also just pull the trigger like a glock.

 

[mk2ja]

This is good to know, thank you.

Sounds like I should order the new sights also and have everything installed at the same time.

Here's what I'm thinking for sights: Warren Tactical Sight, Tritium Front/Plain Rear Mix for S&W M&P

What draws you to the plan rear sight mixed with the tritium front sight? That's like $87.

Why aren't you interested in Big Dot sights again? Or maybe the Meprolights? Is it just price? Or do you feel the one you linked is better in some other way?

 

[Gamez235]

I gotta add this in before I forget. I took a class this summer and a student was forced to borrow a Glock after his 1911 went down. After getting the Glock his groups were all over the place and complained he wasn't used to shooting a Glock. The instructor told him to drop the Glock on the ground in front of him, and then asked another student with an 1911 to drop his as well in front of the student. The instructor then asked the him what car he drove and the student replied, "A Ford F150", quickly the instructor asked him if the were asked to drive a dodge neon whoule be swerving and driving all over the road? The student replied, "no". The instructor then asked if he was used to driving a neon, and the student again replied, "no". The instructor then proceeded to pick up each pistol and fire tight groups at 7yds with each of them. toss them both back on the ground and told the student, they both have triggers and sights just like cars have steering wheels and gas pedals, if your fundamentals are solid, the gun doesn't matter.... The instructor carried a revolver.

 

[Clay]

You can also just pull the trigger like a glock.

no you can't.

 

[esrice]

a firearm where the internal components have been modified opens you up to worlds of legal ramifications,

Believe me, I thought of this. I too once spoke the wisdom of keeping internal parts stock. No aftermarket triggers, no 'trigger jobs' or 'polishing'.

But what we are talking about here with the Apex parts are direct replacements (refinements?) of stock parts that allow me to be a more effective, and thereby safer, shooter. Any attorney could articulate that such simple modifications were made in order to enhance my accuracy and enhance my ability to not hit innocent bystanders, all while maintaining the gun's inherent "safety" features.

I'm not looking for a 1.5lb. hair trigger or to disable a safety mechanism here-- just looking to smooth out what S&W gave it.

It's a bigger gun, period.

This was actually a + for me. I like that its bigger than a 19 but smaller than a 17. This allows me a better purchase on the grip than my 19. I also find its contoured slide and grip to be "thinner" and therefore easier to conceal IWB when compared to the squared-off lines of the Glock.

I implore you to not just run those guns statically.

Like this?

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...vehicle_at_50yds_with_a_pistol_pics_vids.html

Running the M&P dynamically was one of the major deciding factors for me. I was quite surprised at how much more naturally it moved and came up on target. It felt more like pointing my finger than anything. I was able to make hits at much further distances than I had before with my Glock.

My reloads were also smoother and faster with the M&P. My Glock mags would often not fall free-- so much so that I adapted my technique to always ripping the magazine out with my offhand first before going to my reload. The all-metal magazines on the M&P have been zipping out of the gun so far. This "slickness" also aided in the 100 or so tactical reloads I did side-by-side with the Glock. I also like that they seat much more positively and don't keep me wondering "did it seat all the way?"

The yellow lever to take it down, NO-GO! I should be able to field strip it with out tools and that one requires one. Enough said.

What yellow lever? I field stripped it with no tools.

Magazines, they are out there, but not in the numbers the Glock is.

No other gun has mags out there like Glocks do. But I haven't exactly seen a shortage of M&P mags either.

Suppressors, I run them alot. My Glock 19 cycles everybody's can and booster fine. I've has a myriad of issues with the M&P with SWR cans.

Shooting suppressed is y down on my priority list. I never did it with my Glock and I have no plans to do it with this M&P. I have friends with suppressed pistols for that.

Evan, lets hit the range.. I won't let you stand still and think... You'll run those two super hard and after the day is done, maybe you'll see what I did...

You know I'm always game for hitting the range!

I hate the grip on the G19, seriously, it blows... I dare a company to make a gun as simple and well thought out with a better grip.. I'll buy a 100...

If that were so, you and I wouldn't even be having this conversation. The day Glock comes out with a grip as ergonomic and natural as the M&P, I'll jump back on the bandwagon and we can share some kool-aid and cookies.