9mm vs. .45 15 experts give their opinion.

[88E30M50]

How many folks choose 9mm because they found 9mm to be much more controllable than .40 when shooting target ammo. How many of those folks then load their 9 up with +P ammo and then negate a good portion of that difference. The difference in the shootability of 9mm vs .40 is huge when shooting WWB or other FMJ target ammo. But, when you run your 9 with a good factory SD round that gap narrows significantly. There really is no free lunch out there. If you want the modern, high performance 9mm, you have to accept that you've given up a fair portion of the shootability that 9mm is known for.

What you gain in going to 9mm is capacity.

 

[jsharmon7]

I believe it was a .380 which killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria. His death arguably lead to War World I, which led to over 37,000,000 deaths. Therefore .380 trumps all, statistically.

 

[indiucky]

I believe it was a .380 which killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria. His death arguably lead to War World I, which led to over 37,000,000 deaths. Therefore .380 trumps all, statistically.

I believe it was a .32 ACP IIRC from a Browning 1910....

Whoops!!!! It was a .380 ACP!!!!!

http://www.historicalfirearms.info/post/97683056689/the-gun-that-killed-archduke-franz-ferdinand-fn

 

[jmills]

I see comparisons of 9mm and 40/45, what about 9mm and .380? They seem similar in size. Someone I'm sure will ask so let's say for knock down purposes (personal protection/defense).

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I see comparisons of 9mm and 40/45, what about 9mm and .308? They seem similar in size. Someone I'm sure will ask so let's say for knock down purposes (personal protection/defense).

I'm going to assume you mean .380, as a .308 is a rifle round and is certainly plenty of bullet for anything you need done.

The .380 is a 9mm short. A bullet that generally weighs about 75% as much as the lighter 9mm loads traveling at roughly the same speed. At least in ball ammo, it doesn't seem terribly different than light 9mm rounds. It will completely penetrate a gut shot if no bones intercede. It will break large bones, but then stops without much (if any) additional penetration. The issue seems to be in hollowpoints. The loss of weight combined with the same surface area of the penetrating surface (assuming it opens as much as a 9mm) results in a much lower sectional density. Basically it doesn't penetrate reliably. I'm sure the Amazing Bullet Technology folks will be along shortly and fix that, but I don't know there is any .380 out there that consistently passes the FBI test standards. Small cavity on a small bullet results in an easily plugged cavity that doesn't allow proper expansion, causing it to be ball ammo. Bigger cavity allows too rapid of an expansion with no denim/barrier and fails to penetrate enough, or some combination.

Since I want to carry hollowpoints, and because there are a ton of quality 9mm offerings in about any size, I don't see a compelling reason to own or carry a .380. If someone does, though, its capable. You just don't have as much room for error as you do with larger calibers.

 

[jmills]

Thanks I went back in and corrected it. .380

 

[VERT]

Thanks I went back in and corrected it. .380

I just assumed purple. Either that or you were running around with a TC contender in .308 under your coat. This is INGO after all and I don't judge.

 

[Principal Skinr]

I'm going to assume you mean .380, as a .308 is a rifle round and is certainly plenty of bullet for anything you need done.

The .380 is a 9mm short. A bullet that generally weighs about 75% as much as the lighter 9mm loads traveling at roughly the same speed. At least in ball ammo, it doesn't seem terribly different than light 9mm rounds. It will completely penetrate a gut shot if no bones intercede. It will break large bones, but then stops without much (if any) additional penetration. The issue seems to be in hollowpoints. The loss of weight combined with the same surface area of the penetrating surface (assuming it opens as much as a 9mm) results in a much lower sectional density. Basically it doesn't penetrate reliably. I'm sure the Amazing Bullet Technology folks will be along shortly and fix that, but I don't know there is any .380 out there that consistently passes the FBI test standards. Small cavity on a small bullet results in an easily plugged cavity that doesn't allow proper expansion, causing it to be ball ammo. Bigger cavity allows too rapid of an expansion with no denim/barrier and fails to penetrate enough, or some combination.

Since I want to carry hollowpoints, and because there are a ton of quality 9mm offerings in about any size, I don't see a compelling reason to own or carry a .380. If someone does, though, its capable. You just don't have as much room for error as you do with larger calibers.

There is ammo that consistently passes the FBI requirements, using Hornady XTP bullets, including Federal Hydra-Shok, and Precision One, and Fiocchi. Check out the Lehigh Defense Extreme Penetrator. Look at the wound channel deep inside compared to even hollow-points. Pretty impressive stuff. It is now my carry ammo in my Glock 42. For 9mm, I agree, you have a wider selection, for sure. I generally run Federal Hydra-Shok with Hornady XTP's in my 9mm, or Remington Golden Saber, although I'm looking hard at Hornady Critical Duty. Any of those will perform pretty well, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LczfeWK9lHw<a data-cke-saved-href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LczfeWK9lHw" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LczfeWK9lHw">[video=youtube;LczfeWK9lHw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LczfeWK9lHw[/video]

 

[oldpink]

I just assumed purple. Either that or you were running around with a TC contender in .308 under your coat. This is INGO after all and I don't judge.

What an image that is!
The ultimate example of power vs. capacity, only outdone by this:

[video=youtube;x7yK7pW6VuE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7yK7pW6VuE[/video]

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Look at the wound channel deep inside compared to even hollow-points. Pretty impressive stuff.

It is impressive in his gel block of unknown providence. I'm doubting actual flesh will be used to "cut" other flesh quite as neatly by hydraulic action in something spinning that fast. The human body isn't a consistent density and texture. The difference between 100% fluid and 90% fluid can be pretty extreme. Ask anyone who's had an air bubble in their brake lines. While fluid can't be compressed, real flesh can be, and it can expand, and it can swell, and it can move, etc. etc. I'm sure it will be impressive in a water jug or a homebrew ballistic block, and as such will sell quite well in the days of Youtube tests and personalities. I am not as convinced it will be as impressive in real shootings. I'm willing to be proven wrong, though.

If I see one used in real life, I'll report back. As always, I'll let others beta test in the real world before I would carry it.

 

[BugI02]

I would (and have) carried 380 when the associated firearm is the logical choice for the situation ( mode of dress etc ). The weakness of 380 seems to be twofold. Its subsonic in most implementations, which is associated with less satisfactory terminal performance in hollowpoints. And its lower mass means lower kinetic energy delivered even if the hollow point does its job. Lets take as an example critical duty ( a personal favorite ):

Critical Duty 380 1000fps and 90gr projectile while CD 9mm is 1010 fps with 135gr projectile. The velocities are about a wash but the greater mass means that all other parameters being equal the 9mm has 53% more potential energy available (at the muzzle). If there was more of a velocity difference that advantage would rise sharply. I've read that 380's limiting factor is case volume. There isn't enough room for the powder charge necessary to drive bigger bullets faster.

 

[Principal Skinr]

It is impressive in his gel block of unknown providence. I'm doubting actual flesh will be used to "cut" other flesh quite as neatly by hydraulic action in something spinning that fast. The human body isn't a consistent density and texture. The difference between 100% fluid and 90% fluid can be pretty extreme. Ask anyone who's had an air bubble in their brake lines. While fluid can't be compressed, real flesh can be, and it can expand, and it can swell, and it can move, etc. etc. I'm sure it will be impressive in a water jug or a homebrew ballistic block, and as such will sell quite well in the days of Youtube tests and personalities. I am not as convinced it will be as impressive in real shootings. I'm willing to be proven wrong, though.

If I see one used in real life, I'll report back. As always, I'll let others beta test in the real world before I would carry it.

I'll let you know how it does, if, God forbid, I ever have to test it out.

 

[mammynun]

I knew it...Fashion be hanged..I am shaving my head and buying some tight, black Ed Hardy T Shirts....My family is worth it...

Anybody got some spare facial hair to spare???? Just enough for a goatee....

I can help.

Nah, that's just weird.

 

[indiucky]

I can help.

Nah, that's just weird.

Here is a recent pic of mammynun...He has it to spare...

 

[dtkw]

If there was a line of Talibans wanted a piece of me, here is what I would use,

1. my Les Baer 1911 with 5 magazines ready. after this

2. my Sig P229 in .40 with 6 magazines ready, after this

3. my Sig P226 in 9mm with 6 magazines ready, after this

4. my Browning hi Power (Belgium) with 4 magazines ready, after this

5. my Argentina FN Hi Power with 2 magazines ready, after this

6, my S&W AE15T with 2000 rounds, after this

7. my AR 458 socom with 300 rounds,

8. My Remmy 700 BDL in 30-06 with 100 rounds


9. then it would be my 8 inches survival knife

10 then it would be my 6 inches tactical knife

11. My fists. I guess..

 

[singlemalt]

9mm vs..45 ACP.

Well 9mm might expand but .45 ACP won't shrink! Just my .02.

 

[wassup61]

Is a valid answer "its a pistol caliber out of a pistol barrel, shot placement is key"

 

[churchmouse]

Is a valid answer "its a pistol caliber out of a pistol barrel, shot placement is key"

To a point.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

To a point.

This.

More damage = bigger margins for error.

 

[GLOCKBOY]

Must be a slow day in the gun world. I got so sick of this "debate" in the late '80s and early '90s.

Stir up controversy. Create endless arguments. And in the end.......no minds were changed, no opinions altered.