17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[Bunnykid68]

So if Martin was in fear of Zimmerman for being followed, he was supposed to run from Zimmerman, not confront him. But now that he did run, he's guilty. Which is it?

He is guilty because he ran back and attacked Zimm. Zimm said so and there are no other witnesses to say otherwise. Kinda like Thunderdome without witnesses

 

[strahd71]

what if there is no "innocent" person, what if they were both just wrong? really does someone have to be right on this? it seems to me they were both equally at fault.

jake

 

[hornadylnl]

The same thing as when we spot someone around here. Acting suspiciously. I am no cop so guilty is not what motivates me. My retired neighbors being bothered and things getting stolen do motivate me. The cops are 30 minutes away in split second situations. I will not judge you, I will approach and ask you to your face. Why are you here, what are you doing. It is not a legal or illegal act and that is the last thing on my mind. Usually when asked folks either run like the wind or state their business. The runners are "Guilty" of something or would have been if left alone. The folks who answer are either smart enough to act right or just wondering around. After contact, they wonder off or go home.
The local LEO's will tell you that most of the crime is committed by those who drive in or ride in on the bus. The bus riders intend to leave in a vehicle. They are not from this area. Since we all have let these fools know we are watching things have settled down a lot. No more pan handlers, home robbery's etc. It is a rapidly changing world. You all need to catch up.

There are many reasons I choose not to live in the city. Douche bags of all stripes are one of the reasons. If you're on my 27 acres, you aren't passing through. Only in America, can a naked man inside of his house be spotted by the tresspassing wife of a cop and get arrested for indecent exposure but a kid passing through a yard be reason to escalate a situation to justifiable homicide.

 

[hornadylnl]

what if there is no "innocent" person, what if they were both just wrong? really does someone have to be right on this? it seems to me they were both equally at fault.

jake

And this is where most of my opinion is at. My whole argumemt stems from what initiated the whole situation.

 

[Roadie]

There are many reasons I choose not to live in the city. Douche bags of all stripes are one of the reasons. If you're on my 27 acres, you aren't passing through. Only in America, can a naked man inside of his house be spotted by the tresspassing wife of a cop and get arrested for indecent exposure but a kid passing through a yard then beating someone's head into the concrete because he was "followed" be reason to escalate a situation to justifiable homicide.

Fixed that for you..

 

[sepe]

The police seem to think Martin attacked Zimmerman. They state the evidence backs up his claim of being attacked first. Do you think Zimmerman, who was carrying a pistol, started a fist fight with a guy five or six inches taller than him? Really?

Zimmerman is free because the evidence backs up his version of the events.

You never really know what people are thinking. I'm 5'11 and had a guy about 5'2 come at me. Besides the height, I had about 130 pounds on him. Some people believe they're bulletproof.

I'm not saying either in this situation were right or wrong as we don't have full details and we won't. Do I think Zimmerman could have acted differently and avoided this? Yes. In my eyes, even if it was a "good" shoot he isn't someone I'd want as my neighborhood watch. Could Trayvon acted differently? Yes. I am interested in who was screaming for help. Was it Trayvon? A neighbor? Zimmerman panicking enough his voice and the screams for help weren't anywhere near close enough to say it was him?

 

[churchmouse]

what if there is no "innocent" person, what if they were both just wrong? really does someone have to be right on this? it seems to me they were both equally at fault.

jake

Again, if we see you lurking and ask you why and you attack me, who is wrong.
Where do you folks live. Is there any crime there. Do you have folks wondering down the streets that are not from your area. We are talking about an area that had a lot of theft and such. Same thing we had around here a few years back. We did not have an organized watch program. We just watched and acted in response to suspicious activity. No one got shot but it was close a few times. There was a few folks that got stomped when they acted like young Trevon. Since we took control of the area the fools are fewer and theft is almost zero. We still get the walkers. The pan handlers all know to stay away. LEO's did nothing to control this, we did.

 

[hornadylnl]

Fixed that for you..

I'll be more than happy to agree with your version of the events if there is more than Zimmerman's version of the story to back it up.



How much safer our society would be if we put up check points everywhere and had to show our papers everywhere we went.

 

[griffin]

If Zimmerman could articulate or prove that Martin was in the commision of the crime, this thread wouldn't exist.

Zimmerman did. He stated that Tray attacked him. That's a crime. The police said the evidence backs up Zimmerman's statements of the night in question. The police declined to arrest, and the State's Prosecutor declined to prosecute.

This thread doesn't exist because Zimmerman couldn't articulate or prove that Martin was in the commission of the crime. This thread exists because of the race-baiters in this country that could care less about black on black crime, or black on white crime, but saw an opportunity here to gin up racial tension and strife.

 

[griffin]

Crime is high boys so let's just throw the Bill or Rights out the window.

The Bill of Rights limits the federal government's role in our lives.

 

[strahd71]

And this is where most of my opinion is at. My whole argumemt stems from what initiated the whole situation.

honestly i think its a tragedy of errors and i realize that we need a certain amount of truth and closure about this but i think everyone is going to be disappointed. each of them could have, should have done things better. instead of trying to place a blame on one or the other i think we as a country would be better off using it as a platform to have a real dialogue about the state of things, and how the powers that be manipulate all of us in crisis like this. that is the bigger issue at large

just my two cents

jake

 

[hornadylnl]

Again, if we see you lurking and ask you why and you attack me, who is wrong.
Where do you folks live. Is there any crime there. Do you have folks wondering down the streets that are not from your area. We are talking about an area that had a lot of theft and such. Same thing we had around here a few years back. We did not have an organized watch program. We just watched and acted in response to suspicious activity. No one got shot but it was close a few times. There was a few folks that got stomped when they acted like young Trevon. Since we took control of the area the fools are fewer and theft is almost zero. We still get the walkers. The pan handlers all know to stay away. LEO's did nothing to control this, we did.

I live off the paved road 5.5 miles from the nearest town large enough to have a gas station. Again, there are many reasons I choose to live where I do. I see cars driving by slowly at times. I guess next time, I will set up a road block and ask them what their business is. I saw a guy with out of county plates messing around the creek bank down the road the other day. I guess I should have got all up in his business asking him what he was doing. I saw a guy at work today let another woman into his truck after work. The 2 leaned over and kissed each other. This woman was clearly not his wife. I guess I should call his wife and tell on him.

The problem with the scenarios that I gave above are not crimes. Do I take notice? Most certainly. But as they have committed no crimes, I don't get involved.

 

[griffin]

So if Martin was in fear of Zimmerman for being followed, he was supposed to run from Zimmerman, not confront him. But now that he did run, he's guilty. Which is it?

Stop making up straw man arguments. He wasn't guilty of anything until he attacked Zimmerman. Then he was guilty of battery. Tray chose poorly.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Zimmerman did. He stated that Tray attacked him. That's a crime. The police said the evidence backs up Zimmerman's statements of the night in question. The police declined to arrest, and the State's Prosecutor declined to prosecute.

This thread doesn't exist because Zimmerman couldn't articulate or prove that Martin was in the commission of the crime. This thread exists because of the race-baiters in this country that could care less about black on black crime, or black on white crime, but saw an opportunity here to gin up racial tension and strife.

Just maybe....because this thread did not start 3 days after the shooting, it started a month later.

 

[hornadylnl]

honestly i think its a tragedy of errors and i realize that we need a certain amount of truth and closure about this but i think everyone is going to be disappointed. each of them could have, should have done things better. instead of trying to place a blame on one or the other i think we as a country would be better off using it as a platform to have a real dialogue about the state of things, and how the powers that be manipulate all of us in crisis like this. that is the bigger issue at large

just my two cents

jake

Agreed. I don't think we'll ever know the whole truth of the matter. I would hope Americans would learn to leave each other be if no crime is being committed. But I have no hope that will ever happen.

 

[churchmouse]

There are many reasons I choose not to live in the city. Douche bags of all stripes are one of the reasons. If you're on my 27 acres, you aren't passing through. Only in America, can a naked man inside of his house be spotted by the tresspassing wife of a cop and get arrested for indecent exposure but a kid passing through a yard be reason to escalate a situation to justifiable homicide.

You are not allowed to be passing through my yard either. It is posted and we will bust you up. That is one of my points. I see where you are coming from now and have a better understanding of how you see things.
I am not able to move for many reasons. Age, health, money, you know. The area is not all that bad. It is those who are "Passing" through that cause the issues. As I stated, they drive in, are dropped off or ride the bus. It is getting silly everywhere. We are just taking control of our area. We do not want folks wondering about. Predators of every stripe abound in the world. I understand what Z was doing, he just did not do it right.

Edit...These scenarios you reference have no bearing on my post. Just saying. Not even close to the same thing. You live comfortably and enjoy your property. I wish I could do the same but can not. I am stuck in an ever changing world just Like Z is. We will do what is needed to keep the preditors out. You can relax.

 

[strahd71]

Agreed. I don't think we'll ever know the whole truth of the matter. I would hope Americans would learn to leave each other be if no crime is being committed. But I have no hope that will ever happen.

i agree. at this point with all the conflicting stories how would we know it was the truth anyhow even if they told us? "oh we lied before and twisted the facts to fit our political world view but believe us now"

America, and Americans have a long history of not minding their own business...... i dont know how much this apply's here, but we certainly could practice minding our own business in many other area's

jake

 

[hornadylnl]

Stop making up straw man arguments. He wasn't guilty of anything until he attacked Zimmerman. Then he was guilty of battery. Tray chose poorly.

I'm trying to understand the logic here. I'm being told that if Martin was in fear of a stranger following him, he was supposed to run. But since he ran away initially, that proves he was guilty so Zimmerman pursued him.

 

[strahd71]

I'm trying to understand the logic here. I'm being told that if Martin was in fear of a stranger following him, he was supposed to run. But since he ran away initially, that proves he was guilty so Zimmerman pursued him.

i have a question, now admittedly i havent followed this case or thread like you guys.......

but where does the thought that martin should have ran instead of confronting if he felt himself to be in danger? in real life i doubt i would run, i would confront. that may not be the "legal" thing to do, but sometimes street law counts too.

jake

 

[sepe]

You are not allowed to be passing through my yard either. It is posted and we will bust you up. That is one of my points. I see where you are coming from now and have a better understanding of how you see things.
I am not able to move for many reasons. Age, health, money, you know. The area is not all that bad. It is those who are "Passing" through that cause the issues. As I stated, they drive in, are dropped off or ride the bus. It is getting silly everywhere. We are just taking control of our area. We do not want folks wondering about. Predators of every stripe abound in the world. I understand what Z was doing, he just did not do it right.

I was pretty close to handing out a few whoopins the other night. I heard a moped go down the cul-de-sac (we're the last house with another lot to the east) but didn't hear it come back. I figured it was some moron kids (it was) so I just put a little scare into them and blinded them for a minute or two. I saw one of the kids last night at a neighbor's house beating on the door and calling the house. I'm guessing he was trying to buy some meth or booty (son has been busted before and momma is WhiskeyTango that had her son's friends over quite a bit when he wasn't around). From the looks on their faces, I doubt they'll park down by the truck (parked just at the edge of our property line) again to make their meth or booty calls. If they do, I'll go the route of your neighbors and I'll have fun doing it.