17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[griffin]

I don't know that Zimmerman did initiate the fight. Please show me this "All evidence points to Tray initiating physical contact and punching Zimmerman" because I'm not seeing it.

That is what the police are now saying.

You have to remember the timeline on all this. Initially there was a lot of speculation in the news media about what exactly happened. The police plainly stated that the media's sequence of events were "purely speculation." It wasn't until a few days ago that the final results of the investigation began to be leaked to the media. When they began asking the police about it, the police then acknowledged that all 911 audio, eyewitness testimony, and physical evidence backed up Zimmerman's story. But up until then the police weren't saying very much past their "official" statement and answers to questions issued by the city manager, which was still pretty good.

What we know now, about the investigation, the incident, and Tray, is a lot more than we knew three or four days ago.

 

[jeremy]

What I have learned in 960 posts here...

No one really knows WTF happened, but are ready to condemn someone, or not, based solely on their "beliefs" on what happened. Yup, sounds bout as fair as what I can read in the news about it...

Hypocrisy...
Possibly, it damn sure has nothing to do with Justice being served...

 

[CarmelHP]

So, it was Zimmerman's property?

Again, show me real PROOF that Martin iniated the physical contact and I'll eat the largest crow you can find.

Your reading comprehension is at a low ebb. It's HOA property, the HOA appointed Zimmerman so he had the right to ask questions. Show me the evidence that Zimmerman initiated physical contact. Two can play the game.

I'm still waiting on you to quote my posts where I called for Zimmerman's blood. You made the accusation, now prove it.

You're still doing it, busybody. Still making baseless accusations.

 

[griffin]

And yet no one has any evidence to prove it either? Only the testimony of the guy who pulled the trigger.

According to the police, you are wrong. They say that all 911 audio, eyewitness testimony, and physical evidence backs up Zimmerman's story.

Oh he and Trayvons girlfriend who it has been confirmed was on the phone WITH Trayvon at the time of the incident, yet you dismiss her as a credible witness completely.

I never once did that. Actually what I read of what she told the media fits right in with Zimmerman's testimony. She said Tray went back to confront Zimmerman against her wishes and Tray asked Zimmerman, "Why are you following me?" Right after that Tray's phone earpiece or whatever he was using fell out or became disconnected and that was the last she heard.

So yeah, even what she says corroborates Zimmerman's account. If the media can be believed, and we all know about how unreliable they often are.

 

[hornadylnl]

Your reading comprehension is at a low ebb. It's HOA property, the HOA appointed Zimmerman so he had the right to ask questions. Show me the evidence that Zimmerman initiated physical contact. Two can play the game.

You're still doing it, busybody. Still making baseless accusations.

Again, quote my posts where I've advocated a denial of due process for Zimmerman? How am I calling for blood?

 

[CarmelHP]

I seem to remember a funny little U.S. Supreme Court case known as Marsh v. Alabama which, along with its progeny, may make your above argument really dangerous for Mr. Zimmerman. If it is as you describe, the potential federal civil rights case may have just went from a non-starter to a real possibility.

"Private Properties" can really cease being just that when they start performing functions traditionally associated with the government.

Joe

Look at the case again Joe, it turned on whether the town allowed all other uses to outsiders EXCEPT the one they wanted to prohibit. The town allowed free access, while gated communities do not, that's the idea, to restrict access.

 

[hornadylnl]

According to the police, you are wrong. They say that all 911 audio, eyewitness testimony, and physical evidence backs up Zimmerman's story.

I never once did that. Actually what I read of what she told the media fits right in with Zimmerman's testimony. She said Tray went back to confront Zimmerman against her wishes and Tray asked Zimmerman, "Why are you following me?" Right after that Tray's phone earpiece or whatever he was using fell out or became disconnected and that was the last she heard.

So yeah, even what she says corroborates Zimmerman's account. If the media can be believed, and we all know about how unreliable they often are.

What knocked his earpiece out?

 

[griffin]

you keep saying this

Actually I keep repeating what the police say. I wasn't there. The result of their three week investigation is that all evidence backs up Zimmerman's statements.

The State's Attorney agrees. Maybe the special prosecutor will disagree, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[CarmelHP]

For all those saying the 911 transcript was definitive proof. Didn't the transcript say that he was following in the vehicle, got out, got back in and the call ended? If that's the case, how did Zimmerman manage to end up on the ground with Martin on top? Did Martin pull off a herculean effort by tearing the door off of Zimmerman's truck and dragging him out of it?

Where did it say he got back in? Are you disseminating false information?

 

[Fargo]

Look at the case again Joe, it turned on whether the town allowed all other uses to outsiders EXCEPT the one they wanted to prohibit. The town allowed free access, while gated communities do not, that's the idea.

Oh, I've read it and the caselaw that developed out of it some years ago back when the Pizza Baron Tom Monaghan was going to create his own Florida gated community/town and rule it under Catholic Law.

I'm not saying there is a case directly in line with the circumstances in this case, but as I recall the current trend in that line of law, private entities really have to be careful about exercising powers normally exercised by the government when you are talking about communities rather than true corporations or individuals.

I never thought the civil rights thing would get off the ground until I considered the implications of your post. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if Holder and Co. use your exact argument to make a federal case a reality. I'm not saying its right, but I am saying it appears possible.

Joe

 

[CarmelHP]

What knocked his earpiece out?

How did "fell out" or "became disconnected" become "knocked out?" You're doing it again.

 

[CarmelHP]

Oh, I've read it and the caselaw that developed out of it some years ago back when the Pizza Baron Tom Monaghan was going to create his own Florida gated community/town and rule it under Catholic Law.

I'm not saying there is a case directly in line with the circumstances in this case, but as I recall the current trend in that line of law, private entities really have to be careful about exercising powers normally exercised by the government when you are talking about communities rather than true corporations or individuals.

I never thought the civil rights thing would get off the ground until I considered the implications of your post. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if Holder and Co. use your exact argument to make a federal case a reality. I'm not saying its right, but I am saying it appears possible.

Joe

I don't get it. Where's the "preferred right" (First Amendment is those cases) that is being restrained? To walk across people's lawns? It's not like they said "only Methodists could walk around here." It's widely used in Florida and the communities can remove trespassers. It's not a rights violation to ask what someone is doing or if they lived there.

 

[griffin]

What knocked his earpiece out?

I don't know. Maybe Tray tearing it out or throwing his phone down preparing for a fight. Maybe Zimmerman throwing a punch at Tray. Maybe Tray throwing a punch at Zimmerman.

Only three entities have the full results of the investigation: the SPD, the State's Attorney, and the special prosecutor. Well, actually the FBI and DOJ might now, too.

In any event, the public does not. There is physical evidence that has not been released. There is testimony that has not been released, both eyewitness and Zimmerman's.

 

[hornadylnl]

He was being pro-active. Kid approached him first, while he was on the phone with 911. When kid determined he was talking with 911, he began running. Zimmerman began going after him but almost immediately lost him, so turned around and returned to his truck. (All on 911 audio that has been released).

Tray's problem was that after several minutes he went back to Zimmerman and attacked him. Tray had a choice. Tray chose poorly.

Where did it say he got back in? Are you disseminating false information?

I was going off of the post above your quoted post.

Where was I calling for blood? You keep repeating it makes it the truth?

 

[Fargo]

I don't get it. Where's the "preferred right" (First Amendment is those cases) that is being restrained? To walk across people's lawns? It's not like they said "only Methodists could walk around here."

The "preferred right" in this case would stem from Trayvon being a member of a 14th Amendment "protected class" which they would claim he was discriminated against on the basis of by an agent of the quasi-governmental body. There would also be potential 4th amendment issues if Zimmerman is found to have been acting as a state actor via the HOA's quasi-governmental status.

Once again, I'm not advocating this, saying it is right, or saying it is what the law is. I think there are huge constitutional and legal problems with every facet of the above argument.

However, I doubt the DOJ at the moment shares my concerns, especially since apparently 67% of whites think Zimmerman should be arrested, nevermind what the black community thinks. Think of the election consequences here if there is a federal case PENDING come November.

Joe

 

[CarmelHP]

I was going off of the post above your quoted post.

You mean like me going off another post that misstated the time. Well pot meets kettle.

Where was I calling for blood? You keep repeating it makes it the truth?

You making crap up again.

 

[hornadylnl]

How did "fell out" or "became disconnected" become "knocked out?" You're doing it again.

Fell out, knocked out. I guess hats the same as 7:15 and 0200.

 

[CarmelHP]

The "preferred right" in this case would stem from Trayvon being a member of a 14th Amendment "protected class" which they would claim he was discriminated against on the basis of by an agent of the quasi-governmental body. There would also be potential 4th amendment issues if Zimmerman is found to have been acting as a state actor via the HOA's quasi-governmental status.

Once again, I'm not advocating this, saying it is right, or saying it is what the law is. I think there are huge constitutional and legal problems with every facet of the above argument.

However, I doubt the DOJ at the moment shares my concerns, especially since apparently 67% of whites think Zimmerman should be arrested, nevermind what the black community thinks. Think of the election consequences here if there is a federal case PENDING come November.

Joe

Call me when if happens, otherwise it's too silly for even Holder to contemplate. Remember, in Marsh the enforcers were actual police that the town employed, so they WERE state actors.

 

[lucky4034]

According to the police, you are wrong. They say that all 911 audio, eyewitness testimony, and physical evidence backs up Zimmerman's story.

I never once did that. Actually what I read of what she told the media fits right in with Zimmerman's testimony. She said Tray went back to confront Zimmerman against her wishes and Tray asked Zimmerman, "Why are you following me?" Right after that Tray's phone earpiece or whatever he was using fell out or became disconnected and that was the last she heard.

So yeah, even what she says corroborates Zimmerman's account. If the media can be believed, and we all know about how unreliable they often are.

Post your sources please.... I'd like to read what you are reading and see if I interpret it the same.

as for his girlfriend.... I just posted what she is quoted as saying. No where it says that Tray "went back"... no where.

Actually I have yet to see any source saying that Tray went back.... none. Yet you keep saying that he ambushed Zim while he was trying to get back in his truck.

 

[hornadylnl]

What? You were willing to send him to prison based on them yesterday. You were among the pack baying for his blood.

Waiting my admission that I quoted another member uncritically. Guilty your honor since it's important to your self-esteem, get the noose! Now admit that you have been highly hypocritical and self-righteous throughout calling for this guy's blood based on nothing except your prejudice and hate.

You'd be unconscious? Are you a physician? You believe TV that every hit on the head knocks you out? People are shot in the head and don't necessarily lose consciousness. Zimmerman called 911 as you now say you would, but he's a mall ninja and you're not because he tried to keep an eye out like the apartment complex asked him to? What nonsense. When did the populace lose the right to watch over their own property and have to cede that to police? Where are your tox reports?

You mean like me going off another post that misstated the time. Well pot meets kettle.



You making crap up again.

So now I'm making up the fact that you are accusing me of calling for his blood?