17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[J_Wales]

Abreeya Brown and Ashley Conaway: 'Bodies of 2 women found buried in shallow grave' | Mail Online


Has fearless leader called a press conference to make a statement regarding these two girls who look like his daughters?

 

[J_Wales]

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/1939/020/Was_Trayvon_Martin_a_Drug_Dealer.html

Why did the press keep publishing an old, outdated picture? Were they not able to find a more recent one?

 

[GBuck]

It is amazing how many people on this site are bashing not only the media and politicians involved, but eachother. None of us have any clue what happened there because we weren't there when it happened. We are not there now to do any investigating ourselves.

All I DO know is that the BPP has, IMO, committed a crime by offering a bounty against a human being. I also think there are many people trying to incite a race riot. That is all.

 

[lucky4034]

He was being pro-active. Kid approached him first, while he was on the phone with 911. When kid determined he was talking with 911, he began running. Zimmerman began going after him but almost immediately lost him, so turned around and returned to his truck. (All on 911 audio that has been released).

Tray's problem was that after several minutes he went back to Zimmerman and attacked him. Tray had a choice. Tray chose poorly.

This is completely fabricated.... For one, it doesn't say anything about Trayvon being aware that Zimmerman was on the phone with 911... nor does the tape reveal that Zimmerman was outside of his truck running after him. AT ALL...

Actually all indication points to Zimmerman still being in his truck at this point following Trayvon around. He wasn't near his house... and it was raining.... why would he be getting out of his truck to run on foot after a guy who described was on drugs and putting his hand in his wasteband?

If you are going to hammer the media for their "propaganda" ... don't start making up your own to counter it....


@ the notion that he was wandering around up to no good

the fact that it was raining outside and the kid left his house to go to the gas station... where he picked up skittles and iced tea would lend itself to the notion that he was going back home and probably quickly.

 

[hornadylnl]

Waiting my admission that I quoted another member uncritically. Guilty your honor since it's important to your self-esteem, get the noose! Now admit that you have been highly hypocritical and self-righteous throughout calling for this guy's blood based on nothing except your prejudice and hate.

You'd be unconscious? Are you a physician? You believe TV that every hit on the head knocks you out? People are shot in the head and don't necessarily lose consciousness. Zimmerman called 911 as you now say you would, but he's a mall ninja and you're not because he tried to keep an eye out like the apartment complex asked him to? What nonsense. When did the populace lose the right to watch over their own property and have to cede that to police? Where are your tox reports?

I just read all of my posts in this thread. Please quote my posts in this thread where I called for Zimmerman's blood, said he didn't deserve a trial, lock him up and throw away the key, etc. I certainly didn't see where I posted anything of the sort.

Have I called into question his integrity and character? 1,000,000% yes. I suppose that means I'm calling for blood? Heaven help Zimmerman if he goes to trial and has to withstand the fury of the prosecution if what I've said is so vicious.

 

[lucky4034]

Yo

And well after the 911 call ends? I think the timeline is the police arrived two minutes after the 911 call ends. By then the fight was over and Tray was dead.

Source....

 

[griffin]

Depends. Are they there to report crimes in progress or are they clairvoyants like Zimmerman and stop crimes before they happen?

Actually, both. The Sanford Police Neighborhood Watch Training Manual states over and over and over again to call and report anything suspicious. You are supposed to know everyone who lives in your neighborhood, every car, every house, who has kids, etc. This is verbatim from the manual:

Learn:

• What are all the addresses, styles and colors of houses in my Neighborhood Watch group?
• Who lives in each dwelling?
• What are their ages?
• What hours does each person work?
• What cars do they drive?
• When do the routine maintenance people or household helpers come by?
• Which dwellings have kids who are home alone at times?
• When are they going on vacation?
• Who may be into drugs or gangs?
• Who are having juvenile delinquency or other family problems?
• Who just moved into the neighborhood?

Trust your instincts, call immediately!

Your police department appreciates you acting as their extra eyes and ears. Sometimes your suspicions are unfounded. If you are wrong, they understand you will not always be right, but you will not be in trouble with them. As a good citizen and a Neighborhood Watch participant, your job is to give them the information you base your suspicions on.

Don't hesitate to call!

As a Neighborhood Watch participant, you have a responsibility to:

Learn your neighbor's names, including all occupants of their residences. Be able to recognize them.

Keep an eye on your neighbor's homes and report any suspicious activities to your police department. Again, write the description down so you forget nothing. DO NOT DELAY REPORTING. A few minutes delay is enough time to reduce the chances of ever catching the criminal. No exceptions to this rule insures that:

We Look Out For Each Other!

 

[hornadylnl]

Actually, both. The Sanford Police Neighborhood Watch Training Manual states over and over and over again to call and report anything suspicious. You are supposed to know everyone who lives in your neighborhood, every car, every house, who has kids, etc. This is verbatim from the manual:

Learn:

• What are all the addresses, styles and colors of houses in my Neighborhood Watch group?
• Who lives in each dwelling?
• What are their ages?
• What hours does each person work?
• What cars do they drive?
• When do the routine maintenance people or household helpers come by?
• Which dwellings have kids who are home alone at times?
• When are they going on vacation?
• Who may be into drugs or gangs?
• Who are having juvenile delinquency or other family problems?
• Who just moved into the neighborhood?

Trust your instincts, call immediately!

Your police department appreciates you acting as their extra eyes and ears. Sometimes your suspicions are unfounded. If you are wrong, they understand you will not always be right, but you will not be in trouble with them. As a good citizen and a Neighborhood Watch participant, your job is to give them the information you base your suspicions on.

Don't hesitate to call!

As a Neighborhood Watch participant, you have a responsibility to:

Learn your neighbor's names, including all occupants of their residences. Be able to recognize them.

Keep an eye on your neighbor's homes and report any suspicious activities to your police department. Again, write the description down so you forget nothing. DO NOT DELAY REPORTING. A few minutes delay is enough time to reduce the chances of ever catching the criminal. No exceptions to this rule insures that:

We Look Out For Each Other!

I thank God I moved out to the country where I'm free from this kind of tyranny. I don't have to answer to my neighbors or any neighborhood watch captain. If the relatively few neighbors I have tried foisting something like this on me, I'd tell them under no uncertain terms where they could shove this manual.

 

[griffin]

I wonder why that is? Probably because he hung up with the 911 dispatch to wait for the cops?

Ah, so while he was waiting for the cops Tray came up to him. Yep, that agrees with the police investigation report.

Show me in the 911 audio where Trayvon came up from behind and punched Zimmerman while he was getting back in his truck like i keep hearing claims of?

It's not in the 911 audio, it's in the police investigation report.

 

[lucky4034]

Actually, both. The Sanford Police Neighborhood Watch Training Manual states over and over and over again to call and report anything suspicious. You are supposed to know everyone who lives in your neighborhood, every car, every house, who has kids, etc. This is verbatim from the manual:

Learn:

• What are all the addresses, styles and colors of houses in my Neighborhood Watch group?
• Who lives in each dwelling?
• What are their ages?
• What hours does each person work?
• What cars do they drive?
• When do the routine maintenance people or household helpers come by?
• Which dwellings have kids who are home alone at times?
• When are they going on vacation?
• Who may be into drugs or gangs?
• Who are having juvenile delinquency or other family problems?
• Who just moved into the neighborhood?

Trust your instincts, call immediately!

Your police department appreciates you acting as their extra eyes and ears. Sometimes your suspicions are unfounded. If you are wrong, they understand you will not always be right, but you will not be in trouble with them. As a good citizen and a Neighborhood Watch participant, your job is to give them the information you base your suspicions on.

Don't hesitate to call!

As a Neighborhood Watch participant, you have a responsibility to:

Learn your neighbor's names, including all occupants of their residences. Be able to recognize them.

Keep an eye on your neighbor's homes and report any suspicious activities to your police department. Again, write the description down so you forget nothing. DO NOT DELAY REPORTING. A few minutes delay is enough time to reduce the chances of ever catching the criminal. No exceptions to this rule insures that:

MOST IMPORTANTLY: Even if he isn't breaking any laws... make sure to treat him as such. Make sure you follow him in your car. You will want to make him as uncomfortable and nervous as possible. And when the moment presents itself, jump out of the car with your LTCH in one hand and your pistol in the other and approach him to find out why he hasn't broken any laws in your neighborhood.

We Look Out For Each Other!

Fixed

 

[KG1]

I thank God I moved out to the country where I'm free from this kind of tyranny. I don't have to answer to my neighbors or any neighborhood watch captain. If the relatively few neighbors I have tried foisting something like this on me, I'd tell them under no uncertain terms where they could shove this manual.

I would agree with that but absent any kind of attempt to physically restrain you would you also punch them in the nose then get on top of them on the ground and start beating on them?

 

[hornadylnl]

I would agree with that but absent any kind of attempt to physically restrain you would you also punch them in the nose then get on top of them on the ground and start beating on them?

Again, there is no proof one way or the other who started the physical altercation.

If he isn't physically or verbally threatening me, I'll ignore the douche bag. If he were on my property, I will use whatever means necessary to defend myself. If the douche bag persisted, I would seek legal action against the HOA/neighborhood watch group. I have zero duty to explain myself if I'm in a public place.

 

[lucky4034]

I would agree with that but absent any kind of attempt to physically restrain you would you also punch them in the nose then get on top of them on the ground and start beating on them?

Not knowing who they were and after they had been following me for 5+ minutes on a dark raining night.... I would feel threatened or the need to protect myself.

Probably yes

 

[KG1]

Again, there is no proof one way or the other who started the physical altercation.

If he isn't physically or verbally threatening me, I'll ignore the douche bag. If he were on my property, I will use whatever means necessary to defend myself. If the douche bag persisted, I would seek legal action against the HOA/neighborhood watch group. I have zero duty to explain myself if I'm in a public place.

Exactly my point though. As of yet I don't think there is any proof that Zimmerman actually physically laid hands on Martin before hand.

 

[KG1]

Not knowing who they were and after they had been following me for 5+ minutes on a dark raining night.... I would feel threatened or the need to protect myself.

Probably yes

Then it could go the other way though. Zimmerman had no knowledge of what Martins intentions were and if he was attacked and knocked to the ground with Martin on top of him would he also not feel threatened enough to be able to defend himself?

 

[hornadylnl]

Exactly my point though. As of yet I don't think there is any proof that Zimmerman actually physically laid hands on Martin before hand.

Tell that to those who are insisting that Martin jumped him from behind and dribbled his head on the concrete like a basketball.

I don't know who started the physical fight. My fault with Zimmerman is what was his reasoning for calling the cops? If he saw Martin commit a crime, then why wouldn't he have stated it in the 911 call? It is my PERSONAL OPINION that an overzealous neighborhood watch commander set the wheels in motion that lead to the death of Martin. If it is PROVEN that Martin initiated the attack and the forensics PROVE that the shot is consistant with a close in physical fight, I believe he should walk if the law warrants it. But I will always believe that Zimmerman has some culpability in what caused Martin's death.

I'm a free citizen of the United States of America. I have the absolute right to be in a public place free from harassment barring criminal activity on my part.

 

[griffin]

I thank God I moved out to the country where I'm free from this kind of tyranny. I don't have to answer to my neighbors or any neighborhood watch captain. If the relatively few neighbors I have tried foisting something like this on me, I'd tell them under no uncertain terms where they could shove this manual.

Well, at least you see and understand where this "call 911 for anything suspicious" came from, from the Sanford Police Department itself. People have commented on Zimmerman making 43 calls in 16 months. On average, that's only two or three per month, and many of them were things like garage doors being found open at odd times. This is what they are supposed to notice and call in about. Garage door open when your neighbor is on vacation? At work during the day? People in the neighborhood who don't live there acting suspicious?

Neighborhood watches are sometimes started when areas begin to experience crime. This area had. This watch organization was only six months old. The guy was just trying to do what he thought was right. While on the phone with 911 he reported Tray was acting suspicious. Tray approached him while on the phone with 911. Then when he got closer to Zimmerman, he turned and bolted--ran away. (911 audio) More suspicious behavior. Zimmerman began after him, but according to the 911 audio, about 20 seconds into it he stopped and began returning to his car. This is when the the 911 call taker asked he he was following the kid, he said "yes," and the call taker said he didn't need to follow Tray. Twenty seconds. Then he stopped and went back to his car.

At that point he is working with the call taker to meet the officer who was supposed to be dispatched. There was no contact, threatening or otherwise, between either of them at that point. Tray is the one that came back and came up to him and initiated the contact. And this is according to his girlfriend, although that's only what I read in news reports, not any police report, because I don't think the police interviewed her.

Anyway, the point is Tray had a choice: to walk away or come back and initiate a fight. He chose poorly.

 

[hornadylnl]

Then it could go the other way though. Zimmerman had no knowledge of what Martins intentions were and if he was attacked and knocked to the ground with Martin on top of him would he also not feel threatened enough to be able to defend himself?

And Martin had no knowledge of what Zimmerman's intentions were. Put yourself in Martin's shoes for a second. I've already described my incident with a creepy guy following me around while on foot and followed me in my car at high speeds for at least 2 miles into another parking lot. I went into a restaurant and the guy finally drove off. Did Martin think Zimmerman was a child predator? Did Martin think Zimmerman was a grand klegal of the local? Maybe Martin thought he was protecting himself from an attack by Zimmerman?

You can't have it both ways. If Zimmerman is allowed to question Martin's motives, Martin can question Zimmerman's.

 

[hornadylnl]

Well, at least you see and understand where this "call 911 for anything suspicious" came from, from the Sanford Police Department itself. People have commented on Zimmerman making 43 calls in 16 months. On average, that's only two or three per month, and many of them were things like garage doors being found open at odd times. This is what they are supposed to notice and call in about. Garage door open when your neighbor is on vacation? At work during the day? People in the neighborhood who don't live there acting suspicious?

Neighborhood watches are sometimes started when areas begin to experience crime. This area had. This watch organization was only six months old. The guy was just trying to do what he thought was right. While on the phone with 911 he reported Tray was acting suspicious. Tray approached him while on the phone with 911. Then when he got closer to Zimmerman, he turned and bolted--ran away. (911 audio) More suspicious behavior. Zimmerman began after him, but according to the 911 audio, about 20 seconds into it he stopped and began returning to his car. This is when the the 911 call taker asked he he was following the kid, he said "yes," and the call taker said he didn't need to follow Tray. Twenty seconds. Then he stopped and went back to his car.

At that point he is working with the call taker to meet the officer who was supposed to be dispatched. There was no contact, threatening or otherwise, between either of them at that point. Tray is the one that came back and came up to him and initiated the contact. And this is according to his girlfriend, although that's only what I read in news reports, not any police report, because I don't think the police interviewed her.

Anyway, the point is Tray had a choice: to walk away or come back and initiate a fight. He chose poorly.

So "See something, say something" is bad from the feds but good from the locals?

Why wasn't Martin's girlfriend interviewed? Where is the news report that states Martin's girlfriend said that Martin initiated the fight?

 

[CarmelHP]

If he were on my property, I will use whatever means necessary to defend myself.

That's what Zimmerman did, why's he wrong and you're right?

I have zero duty to explain myself if I'm in a public place.

It wasn't a public place. Florida law considers gated communities to be all private property and the streets are not dedicated to public use but to the HOA to direct. The HOA owns and maintains the streets. The HOA can decide who is granted access and employ patrols to keep out trespassers. Access can be denied to police not on official business (warrant, arrest. or bona fide investigation). Zimmerman was within his rights even if he had stopped and questioned Martin. The HOA appointed him "watch captain." What's your problem with contract and property rights anyway?