17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[KG1]

oops - don't know how I missed that in this short thread.

 

[hornadylnl]

Not knowingly, as you could have read, had you chosen to do so.

The point of my post is that the pro z crowd disbelieved any msm story that might put z in a bad light. We can't believe a word msm says. Yet a supposed pic of m comes out that makes him like a thug and it's treated as gospel because it helps z. That Facebook photo has been posted in the various threads at least twice now. If the negative press against z can't be trusted than don't gobble up the negative press against m.

 

[CarmelHP]

A 17-year old boy, in many cases, believes he's a man and many would not run home to daddy, but would attempt to handle the situation as a man would be "expected."

Like attacking someone that they thought was harassing them?

 

[hornadylnl]

I'm sure as a criminal justice major, z couldn't possibly know the right buzzwords to say to a 911 dispatcher either. Is it likely z did that? Probably not. But is it an impossibility? No.

 

[Que]

Like attacking someone that they thought was harassing them?

I guess you are now the one with the facts. I didn't know it was determined that the kid was the aggressor, but I've not watched the news or read about the case. Is that a new development?

To answer your question, maybe.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

A 17-year old boy, in many cases, believes he's a man and many would not run home to daddy, but would attempt to handle the situation as a man would be "expected."

That's the rub. That missing step that is unknown what happened, best described here:

View From The Porch: Where are they getting these crystal balls?

The step which is unknown (??????) is controlling.

I think if we can conclude anything from this case in Florida is that avoidance is best. The only unknown known is that the gun carrier's life will be turned upside for many years.

 

[dom1104]

A 17-year old boy, in many cases, believes he's a man and many would not run home to daddy, but would attempt to handle the situation as a man would be "expected."

100%

gotta remember this is a kid we are talking about..... Lets not hold him to a higher standard than we hold ourselves to.


One look thru "Carry issues and self defense" will show you full grown men do a lot of stupid stuff in the moment.

 

[CarmelHP]

Next time you have your piece on you and someone threatening comes your way and harasses you... I'll expect you to high tail and run?

You must have missed this the last 3 or 4 times I mentioned it. Martin went toward Zimmerman according to the 911 call, not the way you want it to be. If I think someone is following me to do me harm, I'm sure as hell not going to go look for it. If that's what you'd do with your gun, then you're right, you shouldn't have a LTCH.

 

[Que]

That's the rub. That missing step that is unknown what happened, best described here:

View From The Porch: Where are they getting these crystal balls?

The step which is unknown (??????) is controlling.

I think if we can conclude anything from this case in Florida is that avoidance is best. The only unknown is that the gun carrier's life will be turned upside for many years.

Kirk, you are my new hero!

 

[CarmelHP]

I guess you are now the one with the facts. I didn't know it was determined that the kid was the aggressor, but I've not watched the news or read about the case. Is that a new development?

To answer your question, maybe.

I guess you missed the question mark in your rush to judgment. Isn't the possibility that he attacked his perceived harasser consistent with your own statement? "I'm a man and I'm gonna teach this dude a lesson." You can't have it both ways.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

The other conclusion is that the loss of a 17 year old with reportedly so much promise is a tragedy.

I have a nephew who is turning 14, I cannot image his loss. The parents are no doubt beyond tears but I fear that the grand jury report (especially if a no bill) will not result in closure.

 

[lucky4034]

Yet, apparently, he walked toward Zimmerman.

I didn't read anything that says he "walked toward"... but even if he had... that was a sign for Barney Fife to jump out of his truck?

Or maybe Barney Fife followed him for 4 blocks and jumped out of his truck, then Martin walked toward him.

Either way, "Fight" was signaled for a reason... and the reason was prompted by Zimmerman deciding it was a good idea to follow slowly behind Martin in an unmarked vehicle, then jump out of it and pretend to be a crime scene investigator and interrogate someone who hadn't committed a crime.

How you can say that Martin was the antagonist in this situation is beyond me?

It sounds so desperate to take any small spec of evidence you have that supports your claims and try to make it a solid argument and simply ignore all the facts present?

Sorry to tell you, but you are guilty beyond a "REASONABLE DOUBT" not "WITHOUT DOUBT"....

Zimmerman provoked the kid... that is a FACT! Zimmerman then decided to put himself right into the fire line... whether he threw the first punch or received the first punch is almost irrelevant.

He provoked the kid to the point where the kid decided he was threatened enough to protect himself.

Lets not sit here and pretend that the kid ran after the car and provoked Zimmerman to get out, then started beating Zimmerman until he pulled the trigger.

Zimmerman was the aggressor to the point where his target felt the need to stand his ground.... once Zimmerman was in over his head, he shot the kid. FACT

 

[CarmelHP]

I didn't read anything that says he "walked toward"... but even if he had... that was a sign for Barney Fife to jump out of his truck?

Or maybe Barney Fife followed him for 4 blocks and jumped out of his truck, then Martin walked toward him.

Either way, "Fight" was signaled for a reason... and the reason was prompted by Zimmerman deciding it was a good idea to follow slowly behind Martin in an unmarked vehicle, then jump out of it and pretend to be a crime scene investigator and interrogate someone who hadn't committed a crime.

How you can say that Martin was the antagonist in this situation is beyond me?

You apparently have grave reading comprehension problems. We don't know when Zimmerman got out of his vehicle. How you get "he jumped out" is beyond me. Zimmerman was on the phone with 911 (listen to the call, "he's walking toward me") when Martin apparently started his approach. I didn't say Martin was the antagonist, I said we don't know, but I certainly can not discount it.

 

[CarmelHP]

The other conclusion is that the loss of a 17 year old with reportedly so much promise is a tragedy.

I have a nephew who is turning 14, I cannot image his loss. The parents are no doubt beyond tears but I fear that the grand jury report (especially if a no bill) will not result in closure.

True, I think we had a collision of two people who misjudged the behavior of the other and it went to hell from there.

 

[jsgolfman]

And yet young people die everyday and you never hear a peep about them. Yes, let's hold vigils and scream outrage. Are people's lives so barren and bereft of feeling that they cling to anonymous on-line sanctuaries as their only avenue to express themselves? Some days I really dislike people.

 

[CarmelHP]

It sounds so desperate to take any small spec of evidence you have that supports your claims and try to make it a solid argument and simply ignore all the facts present?

I didn't ignore facts, I simply refuse to manufacture them as you do. That's what is desperate, you having to fill in the void with your own prejudices.

Sorry to tell you, but you are guilty beyond a "REASONABLE DOUBT" not "WITHOUT DOUBT"....

There's more than a reasonable doubt at this point, even using your manufactured "facts."

Zimmerman provoked the kid... that is a FACT! Zimmerman then decided to put himself right into the fire line... whether he threw the first punch or received the first punch is almost irrelevant.

How? By being a "creepy white guy" in your estimation.

He provoked the kid to the point where the kid decided he was threatened enough to protect himself.

How? By calling 911? By being on the sidewalk?

Lets not sit here and pretend that the kid ran after the car and provoked Zimmerman to get out, then started beating Zimmerman until he pulled the trigger.

No, but the available report facts point to the possibility that the physical violence was initiated by Martin.

Zimmerman was the aggressor to the point where his target felt the need to stand his ground.... once Zimmerman was in over his head, he shot the kid. FACT

Saying FACT doesn't make it so. If Martin approached Zimmerman, then Martin was not "standing his ground," he was advancing toward someone who was supposedly "creepy."

 

[Pocketman]

You apparently have grave reading comprehension problems. We don't know when Zimmerman got out of his vehicle. How you get "he jumped out" is beyond me. Zimmerman was on the phone with 911 (listen to the call, "he's walking toward me") when Martin apparently started his approach. I didn't say Martin was the antagonist, I said we don't know, but I certainly can not discount it.

From the 911 transcript:
1:03 - "now he's coming toward me"
2:08 - "he's running ... toward the other entrance of the neighborhood."
2:24 - "Are you following him?" "Yeah"
4:07 Call Ends

Help me out here please. How does one conclude from the above that Martin confronted Zimmerman?

 

[lucky4034]

From the 911 transcript:
1:03 - "now he's coming toward me"
2:08 - "he's running ... toward the other entrance of the neighborhood."
2:24 - "Are you following him?" "Yeah"
4:07 Call Ends

Help me out here please. How does one conclude from the above that Martin confronted Zimmerman?

It doesn't... It shows that Zimmerman thought he was a cop chasing a bad guy.

 

[Effingham]

I think the ensuing wrongful death civil suit will pretty much so be a slam dunk.

Zimmerman is going to be paying for this FOREVER.

To be perfectly honest, I don't think he is going to live that long.

 

[dom1104]

This thread has jumped the shark.

Its now CarmelHP and Lucky nit picking each others choice of words, and everyone else reading way more into the limited amount of data thats available.

/meh.