17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[Kirk Freeman]

One of the police reports from the incident, via Arms & The Law:

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf

 

[dom1104]

Mas Ayoob is a white supremacist? Who knew?

No, but they picked up on it and made a bunch of stuff using that picture.

Massad Ayoob is definatly NOT a white supremacist

 

[CountryBoy1981]

"These laws seem to be encouraging vigilantism by allowing individuals to use deadly force as a first resort," Schumer, D-N.Y., said in a statement.
Schumer asked Holder's department to probe whether the laws "are creating more violence than they are preventing," and whether potential murders are "going unprosecuted" because of them.
He estimated that 23 states have some form of this law.
Schumer cited statistics in Florida showing that before the law was approved, the state averaged 12 justifiable homicides per year. The average subsequent to the law's enactment was 33.


Read more: Schumer Calls For Federal Probe Of 'Stand Your Ground' Laws After Florida Shooting | Fox News

This media speculation is being used by the LEFT to go after "stand your ground."

 

[CountryBoy1981]

Sorry on posting the picture. Did not realize the mistake. Thanks for the update.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Mas Ayoob is a white supremacist? Who knew?

What? You couldn't tell from his name?

 

[hornadylnl]

It is not real. It is a totally different kid.

And frankly, just looks like a kid screwing around on a facebook page.... do you really find that pic threatening?

This is where that pic originated from.

Massad Ayoob » Blog Archive » GEORGE ZIMMERMAN AND TRAYVON MARTIN: WHAT WE DON

And this is what he had to say about it.

"Update: Turns out that the Trayvon Martin Facebook page mentioned here last night was the wrong Trayvon Martin; that has been deleted with my apologies, and thanks to those who flagged me to the error."

You were told wrong.

You mean the pro Zimmerman crowd here who is complaining about biased media are using phony pictures to advance tgeir agenda? Unpossible.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

You mean the pro Zimmerman crowd here who is complaining about biased media are using phony pictures to advance tgeir agenda? Unpossible.

Not knowingly, as you could have read, had you chosen to do so.

 

[KG1]

One of the police reports from the incident, via Arms & The Law:

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf

The part in the report about Zimmerman stating he was calling for help seems to corroborate with a witness account that said Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating him and it was Zimmerman calling out for help.

In my opinion this case all hinges on is who initiated the actual physical contact. I don't think there is anything as of yet to provide definitive proof of that so in my opinion the self defense issue is still plausible.

 

[CarmelHP]

You mean the pro Zimmerman crowd here who is complaining about biased media are using phony pictures to advance tgeir agenda? Unpossible.

I thought it was the anti-lynching/anti-twisting-evidence/anti-rush-to-judgment-just-put-the-rope-around-his-neck-and-be-done-with-it crowd. Ayoob's comments didn't seem to be "pro" either side.

 

[KLB]

Seems many people have already decided one way or another about this and neither side seems willing to accept anything that does not back up their view of things.

I must say that personally the media and political attention just irritate me more and more every day. There is no desire to see justice in this case, only retribution. I hope that the investigation is thorough and gets as close to the trust as possible.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I thought it was the anti-lynching/anti-twisting-evidence/anti-rush-to-judgment-just-put-the-rope-around-his-neck-and-be-done-with-it crowd. Ayoob's comments didn't seem to be "pro" either side.

Why do you suppose that was? Because he didn't have all the relevant facts to make a judgment? As far as I have been able to judge, the "pro-Z" posts on this thread have been primarily to counter the apparent MSM mis-characterization of how this incident happened. The occasional appeal to not make a judgment until all the facts have been threshed out and presented has been largely buried under competing sets of "facts" and speculation as to what actually happened.

Frankly, while I was initially disposed to think that Z was in the wrong, now I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until EVIDENCE proves him wrong, the same courtesy I would hope to get from my peers in a court of law - not a court of Public Opinion.

 

[lucky4034]

It interesting how such freedom loving gun owners, or so you claim, have already convicted a man who in all likelihood acted within Florida state law and defended himself. He's now an idiot to be compared to the Ft. Hood shooter.

I don't want to derail the thread any further with this discussion, but I do find it eye opening. I hope my freedom never rests in the hands of some of you who are so quick to judge sans evidence and who don't consider fellow gun owners (LEGAL) to be on of your own.

Well... I hope your life never rests in the hands of a gun toting idiot who decides to follow you and confront you about crimes you haven't committed?

At least Zimmerman is gonna get a jury to plead his case to... Trayvon?... not so fortunate.

Next you are going to tell me that Trayvon all 140lbs of him stopped Zimmermans truck like superman stopping a train... then pulled Zimmerman out of it so he could punch him in the back of the head and beat him up?

This goes back to just allowing any idiot without a felony have an LTCH... Some people don't have good judgement and Zimmerman BLATANTLY falls in that category.

The fact that you feel the need to "stand up" for him because he is "one of your own" is mind boggling.

While we are at it... lets all stand up for teens who like to drink and then get behind the wheel of a car because "WE" all have drivers licenses.

 

[Liberty's Teeth]

Try to comprehend an entire post and not take things out of context. Leave that to the MSM. My comments regarding what Zimmerman said to Martin were in the context of providing Martin a legally justifiable excuse to attack Zimmerman. They had nothing to do with potential charges and litigation that might occur after the fact.

i wasn't trying to pick on you. Just trying to make a statement about today's society. How a person can not actually commit a crime under state statutes yet be charged under federal law for what he says.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

How a person can not actually commit a crime under state statutes yet be charged under federal law for what he says.

Think about two parallel railroad tracks.

One train does not move, the other train can.

 

[navarre1095]

Would any of this have happened if Zimmerman had followed Dispatch'e instructions and stayed in his car instead of acting like he was Gecko45?

 

[dom1104]

i wasn't trying to pick on you. Just trying to make a statement about today's society. How a person can not actually commit a crime under state statutes yet be charged under federal law for what he says.

What did he SAY anyway? I must have missed that.

 

[KG1]

Why do you suppose that was? Because he didn't have all the relevant facts to make a judgment? As far as I have been able to judge, the "pro-Z" posts on this thread have been primarily to counter the apparent MSM mis-characterization of how this incident happened. The occasional appeal to not make a judgment until all the facts have been threshed out and presented has been largely buried under competing sets of "facts" and speculation as to what actually happened.

Frankly, while I was initially disposed to think that Z was in the wrong, now I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until EVIDENCE proves him wrong, the same courtesy I would hope to get from my peers in a court of law - not a court of Public Opinion.

It's because the "anti-Z" crowd is mostly fueled by emotion instead of actually taking an objective look at what happened.

To my knowledge there has'nt been any proof presented that totally discounts a self defense claim on the part of Zimmerman.

 

[Pocketman]

It's because the "anti-Z" crowd is mostly fueled by emotion instead of actually taking an objective look at what happened.

To my knowledge there has'nt been any proof presented that totally discounts a self defense claim on the part of Zimmerman.

In plain English, self defense may not be a legal defense if Zimmerman initiated the altercation. That's the question of the day. The answer appears to be what's missing from the initial investigation and the source of all the angst.

Edit: Regardless of how this turns out, I'm confident Zimmerman feels terrible about what happened. I'm also confident the gun community will not benefit.

 

[KLB]

In plain English, self defense may not be a legal defense if Zimmerman initiated the altercation. That's the question of the day. The answer appears to be what's missing from the initial investigation and the source of all the angst.

Is there any evidence of what happened beyond what Zimmerman says happened?

 

[CarmelHP]

Well... I hope your life never rests in the hands of a gun toting idiot who decides to follow you and confront you about crimes you haven't committed?

No cop bashing.

At least Zimmerman is gonna get a jury to plead his case to... Trayvon?... not so fortunate.

Maybe, the lynch party has already been announced.

Next you are going to tell me that Trayvon all 140lbs of him stopped Zimmermans truck like superman stopping a train... then pulled Zimmerman out of it so he could punch him in the back of the head and beat him up?

No, but you're mischaracterizing reports of what happened. Z. was outside his vehicle, which was his right (even if he was "creepy" to you and M. wasn't, for whatever reason). How the initial contact occurred, and fight ensued, we don't know. From the 911 call it sounds as if M. approached Z. The most crucial part, who attacked who, we just don't know. Was M. "on something," we just don't know. Was M. prone to violence, don't know. Not knowing all the facts is a good reason not to lynch someone for the crime of "self-defense while white (hispanic)."

This goes back to just allowing any idiot without a felony have an LTCH... Some people don't have good judgement and Zimmerman BLATANTLY falls in that category.

Why, because he was involved with the neighborhood watch? Maybe some think you're an idiot with a LTCH, and "don't have good judgment." Who makes that call in the absence of substantial evidence?

The fact that you feel the need to "stand up" for him because he is "one of your own" is mind boggling.

While we are at it... lets all stand up for teens who like to drink and then get behind the wheel of a car because "WE" all have drivers licenses.

I for one am standing up for the law and lawful self-defense. If this was lawful self-defense then we should oppose it being used as a political football against gun owners (and you seem to be participating in your LTCH comments) or to even up some racial score-keeping.