17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[MilitaryArms]

The police haven't made an arrest for a reason. That reason isn't because they're all a bunch of incompetent racists, it's because they have evidence that Zimmerman was acting in self defense and in accordance with Florida law.

All the people screaming for Zimmerman to be arrested are playing right into the hands of the anti-gunner MSM who is frantically trying to sell this as a reason we shouldn't be trusted with firearms for self defense.

The Feds are involved because the real racists (Jesse Jackass and the Black Panthers) are doing their typical non-sense. They'll swoop in, fabricate a racial case and railroad Zimmerman. I can't believe any freedom loving gun owner would take part in this anti-gun circus and actually support these anti-freedom clowns and their anti-gun agenda.

 

[wally05]

The police haven't made an arrest for a reason. That reason isn't because they're all a bunch of incompetent racists, it's because they have evidence that Zimmerman was acting in self defense and in accordance with Florida law.

All the people screaming for Zimmerman to be arrested are playing right into the hands of the anti-gunner MSM who is frantically trying to sell this as a reason we shouldn't be trusted with firearms for self defense.

The Feds are involved because the real racists (Jesse Jackass and the Black Panthers) are doing their typical non-sense. They'll swoop in, fabricate a racial case and railroad Zimmerman. I can't believe any freedom loving gun owner would take part in this anti-gun circus and actually support these anti-freedom clowns and their anti-gun agenda.

I most definitely agree. Sounds like Obama already weighed in with his idiotic comments about how this kid reminds him of his son. The DOJ shows up for this one b/c it's in the news and the media is railroading him.

As for the screaming "help help". I've had scumbag attackers do that before also. The tapes don't prove much and the fact that he isn't behind bars leaves a possibility that he was in the right.

 

[wally05]

Really? What evidence and testimony back up that Martin attacked him? All the evidence I read in that story shows is that Zimmerman was losing the fight despite being 100 lbs heavier than Martin.

Being on the bottom and yelling for help certainly doesn't preclude you from being the aggressor.

Best,

Joe

If the kid kept rolling with it even if Zimmerman initiated it, he could still say that he was going to be severely hurt or killed.

And weight and size does not matter. If you've EVER had to restrain anyone in your life, you'd know that. I've had 120lb women throw my peers around pretty good and put up a good fight. Same goes for teenagers. I've had a 14 year old beat up a security officer that had 50 lbs on him and break his face in pretty well.

 

[dom1104]

If the kid kept rolling with it even if Zimmerman initiated it, he could still say that he was going to be severely hurt or killed.

And weight and size does not matter. If you've EVER had to restrain anyone in your life, you'd know that. I've had 120lb women throw my peers around pretty good and put up a good fight. Same goes for teenagers. I've had a 14 year old beat up a security officer that had 50 lbs on him and break his face in pretty well.

I stopp reading at "Security Officer".

 

[dom1104]

The police haven't made an arrest for a reason. That reason isn't because they're all a bunch of incompetent racists, it's because they have evidence that Zimmerman was acting in self defense and in accordance with Florida law.

All the people screaming for Zimmerman to be arrested are playing right into the hands of the anti-gunner MSM who is frantically trying to sell this as a reason we shouldn't be trusted with firearms for self defense.

The Feds are involved because the real racists (Jesse Jackass and the Black Panthers) are doing their typical non-sense. They'll swoop in, fabricate a racial case and railroad Zimmerman. I can't believe any freedom loving gun owner would take part in this anti-gun circus and actually support these anti-freedom clowns and their anti-gun agenda.

I admint I havent ready 47 pages of this thread, but is anyone from INGO screaming for Zimmerman to be arrested?

That would be odd.

Since any of us could someday find ourselves in the same situation as Zimmerman...... cant shoot a kid unless you got a gun.. and we got guns.

So I cant imagine any INGOer wanting a take down on another gun owner.

Just sayin.

 

[j706]

This thing is tragic anyway you look at it. But like so many things in this country these days it is turning into a circus. The radicals are of course attempting to make it all about race. It is not about race!

I don't know about you guys but I could care less about what Obama says or thinks about the issue (or any other for that matter) What was it he said? Something like if that would have been my son he would have looked just like him Well duhh. I am about as concerned with his thoughts on it as I am about what the black panthers think or say about it. Let me see...black panthers, oh yea those idiots that were outside the polling places last presidential election wearing their stupid looking berets carrying sticks around jacking with the voters.

 

[John Galt]

I admint I havent ready 47 pages of this thread, but is anyone from INGO screaming for Zimmerman to be arrested?

That would be odd.

Since any of us could someday find ourselves in the same situation as Zimmerman...... cant shoot a kid unless you got a gun.. and we got guns.

So I cant imagine any INGOer wanting a take down on another gun owner.

Just sayin.

Let's hope that certain LEO's on this post never get involved with investigating a civilian self-defense shooting ......

 

[griffin]

Really? What evidence and testimony back up that Martin attacked him?

Victim statements, live 911 audio of the entire event, etc. All the things the police initially used in their decision not to arrest Zimmerman in the first place.

Or are you accusing the entire SPD of being racist or something?

 

[griffin]

This is excellent.

What if Trayvon Had Been White, and the Shooter Black?
Articles: What if Trayvon Had Been White, and the Shooter Black?
By Michael Filozof

What would happen if a black man armed with a handgun confronted "suspicious persons" in his neighborhood? What would happen if the "suspicious persons" were unarmed white teens, one of them was shot dead, and the shooter claimed self-defense?

This is not an exercise in mere speculation. We know what would happen in such a case. There would be no white mobs in the street chanting "No justice, no peace!" There would be no whites holding a "million hoodie march" in New York City. There would be no white equivalent of Al Sharpton, the professional race-baiter behind the 1987 Tawana Brawley hoax, leading marches in the streets of the shooter's hometown. There would be no Federal civil rights investigation by the Justice Department. There would be no comments from a president who seems congenitally unable to keep his mouth shut on matters involving left-wing political correctness. And there would be no national media attention from biased, left-wing "reporters."

We know this because in fact, such an event occurred in 2009 in Greece, N.Y., a suburb of Rochester. Roderick Scott, a black man, shot and killed an unarmed white teen, Christopher Cervini, whom he believed was burglarizing a neighbor's car, with a licensed .40 cal. handgun.

There are many similarities between the Scott-Cervini case and the George Zimmerman-Trayvon Martin case in Florida. In both cases, there had been a spate of criminal activity in the neighborhood. In both cases, the shooters called 911 to report suspicious activity, yet chose to confront the unarmed suspects outside their residence and off their own property prior to the arrival of the police. In both cases, the shooters claimed that they felt threatened, and fired in self-defense. In both cases, local law enforcement applied relevant state law.

Unlike Florida, New York does not have a "stand your ground" law. New York law allows a person to use deadly force to defend his residence from home invasion only as a last resort. It does not allow the use of deadly force to prevent a property crime, and requires retreat if possible. Thus, while Zimmerman was not arrested under Florida law, Scott was tried for manslaughter.

New York law does allow a person to use deadly force anywhere, including off his own property, if he feels that his life is in imminent danger and retreat is not possible. Despite the fact that he left his own property, confronted, and shot dead an unarmed white person thought to be committing a petty property crime, Scott was acquitted by a majority-white jury after claiming that the Cervini charged at him, putting him in imminent fear of his life.

Despite the racial difference between the shooter and the decedent, there were no allegations of racial bias. Scott was not charged with a hate crime. There was no Federal civil rights investigation. There were no white protests. The case was settled for what it was: a tragedy caused by a series of poor decisions on behalf of the shooter, and a split-second decision that will forever be second-guessed.

In all probability, the actions of Zimmerman in Florida were also based on a series of poor decisions: the decision to follow a suspect after a police dispatcher told him not to, the decision to confront a suspect with a firearm off his own property, and a split-second decision to shoot an unarmed person when Zimmerman felt his life was in imminent danger, resulting in tragedy. But a tragedy is not necessarily a Federal civil rights case - unless the mobs in the streets and their allies in the media and government want to make it one.

The truth of the matter is that "civil rights" cases are often little more than reverse lynch mobs. In the Old South of the past, white mobs would drag black suspects out of jail and lynch them in the streets if they felt the wheels of justice were turning too slowly. Today, black mobs, often led by the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, lead street protests or riots, and the Federal government comes after white suspects with the "rope" of "civil rights" charges. And just like the old Southern sheriffs with ties to the Klan who turned a blind eye to the illegal actions of whites, the Department of Justice often refuses to act on "civil rights" violations when the perpetrators are black and the victims are white. In the eyes of the Federal government and the political Left, all whites are forever suspected of being gap-toothed Klansmen with shotguns and nooses in their pickup trucks, and all blacks are perpetually innocent, doe-eyed victims of white oppression.

This dynamic was made perfectly clear twenty years ago by the Los Angeles riots. Rodney King, a convicted felon, allegedly intoxicated, led police on a high-speed car chase and resisted arrest when he was finally cornered. Most people agree that the cops gave Rodney a few more licks than department procedures called for. But given King's background and the extenuating circumstances, the cops were acquitted of assault charges under state law. The black population of L.A. erupted in riots that killed 53 people, ignited thousands of arsons, and saw widespread looting. Korean merchants were racially targeted for arson, and resorted to defending their property with arms. Reginald Denny, a hapless white truck driver who inadvertently drove into the riots, was pulled from his vehicle by black rioters who smashed his skull in 91 places with a brick (inflicting far worse injuries than the cops had inflicted on King) and danced a jig over his prone body.

Long before Eric Holder became Attorney General, refused to prosecute black voter intimidation, and referred to blacks as "my people," the Department of Justice caved in to the pressure of the rioters by charging and convicting the L.A. cops with "civil rights" violations and sending them to Federal prison. But no such Federal charges were levied against the blacks who targeted the Koreans and attacked Reginald Denny.

Two years later, O.J. Simpson, a black defendant with a history of domestic violence, was accused of slashing the throats of two white people. But no "civil rights" or "hate crimes" charges were filed against him. No white protests erupted against Simpson or against the black community. Simpson, a black millionaire who had a career in sports, money, and fame that most white people can only dream about, was portrayed as a "victim" of the "racist" police. Blacks from coast to coast whooped and danced with joy when he was acquitted of double murder.

Certainly it's true that in the past, blacks have been victims of whites. But today the reality is quite different from what the street mobs, the government, the media and the P.C. crowd would have us believe. Far from being victims of white oppression, blacks today are disproportionately perpetrators of violent crimes against whites and against other blacks. According to data from the FBI Uniform Crime Reports, in 2009, "whites" -- a category that includes Hispanics -- were known to be responsible for 5,286 murders. Blacks, a mere 13% of the population, were known to be responsible for 5,980 murders. In 2005, the New Century Foundation's "Color of Crime" report found that "Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are black" (emphasis mine). Also in 2005, the Department of Justice reported that one-third of rapes committed against white women (approximately 37,000) were perpetrated by blacks, while less than ten -- statistically zero -- rapes of black women were committed by whites.

Whatever happened in the George Zimmerman-Trayvon Martin case, one thing is perfectly clear: it's high time this country quit the racial dog-and-pony show, and judged each criminal case on its individual merits instead of allowing the race-baiting demagogues to leverage each incident for political advantage in the streets and in the media.

 

[Expat]

Let's hope that certain LEO's on this post never get involved with investigating a civilian self-defense shooting ......

I hear that. A cop that thinks it is cool to ruin someone's life without regard to a real investigation, without any due process, is a cop that I would never want to be involved with. One can't help but wonder what he would do if he thought someone was dirty but couldn't prove it. Scary thought.

 

[John Galt]

I hear that. A cop that thinks it is cool to ruin someone's life without regard to a real investigation, without any due process, is a cop that I would never want to be involved with. One can't help but wonder what he would do if he thought someone was dirty but couldn't prove it. Scary thought.

Those are the LEO's that really put the vast majority of the great men and women that wear the uniform in such a defensive position and who give the department a bad name. Imagine that kind of hubris and attitude serving a no-knock warrant to the wrong address ......

 

[MilitaryArms]

I admint I havent ready 47 pages of this thread, but is anyone from INGO screaming for Zimmerman to be arrested?

That would be odd.

Since any of us could someday find ourselves in the same situation as Zimmerman...... cant shoot a kid unless you got a gun.. and we got guns.

So I cant imagine any INGOer wanting a take down on another gun owner.

Just sayin.

I'm not specifically talking about INGO'ers, I'm talking about gun people in general. People like Tom from Weapons Education:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbCr6mwAIKo[/ame]

He's usually fighting for gun rights and is a big supporter of CCW's and so forth. But in this video he's calling for the arrest of Zimmerman and also claiming even though he doesn't have many facts that Zimmerman is likely guilty of a crime.

He's not helping us or our rights by making such public statements.

 

[wally05]

I stopp reading at "Security Officer".

Cute, except for the fact that the officer was an off duty police officer... not a Paul Blart type.

 

[ericb]

He was obviously the agressor , now it will be interesting to see if old florida politics can sweep this under the bridge or if the big world media will push it to the limit. Im guessing the limit.

 

[KG1]

I hear that. A cop that thinks it is cool to ruin someone's life without regard to a real investigation, without any due process, is a cop that I would never want to be involved with. One can't help but wonder what he would do if he thought someone was dirty but couldn't prove it. Scary thought.

^This^ Especially when you let your emotions and personal disdain in a case preclude you from taking an objective look at the information.

 

[Fargo]

Victim statements, live 911 audio of the entire event, etc. All the things the police initially used in their decision not to arrest Zimmerman in the first place.

Or are you accusing the entire SPD of being racist or something?

Um, I'm unaware of anything other than the shooter's wholly self-serving statement that in any way shows that Martin attacked. There is no "live 911 audio of the entire event" that I've ever heard of. There is however lots of 911 audio of the end of it which you are apparently characterizing in a really expansive fashion.

Once again, just because Zimmerman was losing does not mean that he was not the aggressor. I'm not saying he was or he wasn't because I don't know. You apparently are much more prescient than I.

BTW, nice strawman on the racist police thing.

Joe

 

[j706]

I'm not specifically talking about INGO'ers, I'm talking about gun people in general. People like Tom from Weapons Education:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbCr6mwAIKo

He's usually fighting for gun rights and is a big supporter of CCW's and so forth. But in this video he's calling for the arrest of Zimmerman and also claiming even though he doesn't have many facts that Zimmerman is likely guilty of a crime.

He's not helping us or our rights by making such public statements.

Wow and this guy is a gun owner and NRA member? Holy cow!!

 

[IndyDave1776]

Wow and this guy is a gun owner and NRA member? Holy cow!!

Nothing would surprise me. For example, I refuse to support the NRA because of its decision to do little of nothing while we had 6 years of an ostensibly gun-friendly congress and white house. All they could manage was parroting 'enforce the existing laws' never mind that the majority of the 'existing laws' need repealed. As soon as we had a hostile congress and then a hostile white house, then they scream 'the sky is falling! send money!' and expect us to jump. Right minds are hard to find!

 

[Fargo]

If the kid kept rolling with it even if Zimmerman initiated it, he could still say that he was going to be severely hurt or killed.

Once again, the unclean hands doctrine generally prevents you from using self-defense at that point. It is one of the risks of starting a fight.

And weight and size does not matter. If you've EVER had to restrain anyone in your life, you'd know that. I've had 120lb women throw my peers around pretty good and put up a good fight. Same goes for teenagers. I've had a 14 year old beat up a security officer that had 50 lbs on him and break his face in pretty well.

That is an absolutely ridiculous statement. Size and weight absolutely do matter, but can be overcome by other factors like skill, experience, conditioning, adrenaline etc. Saying they are not a factor simply because they are not the only factor is absurd.

BTW, nice assumption about having had to restrain anyone. Too bad it is dead wrong.

Joe

 

[cobber]

This is excellent.

What if Trayvon Had Been White, and the Shooter Black?
Articles: What if Trayvon Had Been White, and the Shooter Black?
By Michael Filozof

The facts of this case aside, America has to undergo a sea change and get off the black-white thing once and for all. And the media has to stop encouraging the Sharptons and their ilk. This is simply destructive of the nation. It also disserves the actual victims in these cases.

I don't see this resulting in the passage of new restrictive gun laws and hate crime laws, although the Democrats will try to leverage the vote in November and will castigate the GOP for foot dragging.

By the way, where is Romney et al. on this?