17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[hornadylnl]

Well then let's see them prove Z started the fight. That will be kind of hard to do since his word is all there is. Would you really convict him for murder sans any direct evidence that HE started the fight? It appears to me you would.

I would bet that you've told a lie at some point in your life too, over something far more trivial. Everybody has. So what would that make your word, or anyone's word for that matter, worth?

I've said many times I would not convict with the evidence we have. In the end, a juror's decision is nothing more than his personal opinion. I can't prove that Zimmerman started the fight just the same as you can't prove that Martin started it. But I bet I've read 20 different posters say hundreds of times that Martin started it as if it were fact.

 

[hornadylnl]

How does anyone prove who started the fight? It was dark, no one can prove or disprove what Zimmerman said.

The biggest piece of evidence is Zimmerman's word and Zimmerman torpedoed the integrity of his word. Is that enough to convince a juror? It would not be enough to convince me that he's guilty. I think he has a lot of culpability as to the events that went on that night but I WOULD NOT convict him of his charges with the evidence that's out there. With what we know, he should walk. What scares me are those who think Zimmerman is a hero or are unwilling to believe that he did ANYTHING wrong.

 

[terrehautian]

I wouldn't call him a hero, but I don't think he did anything wrong. At this point, I still believe he was defending himself. Until I hear something with proof he started it, could have not used his gun, or wasn't in danger of being seriously hurt, my opinion won't change.

My worry is that some jurors are going to be in the mind of convict him no matter what the evidence. Then if he walks, he needs to get the heck out of the country for a year or so.

 

[KG1]

Nice to see the same arguments still raging here.

Yep, That's why I scaled my participation way back in this thread long ago.

I'm just gonna wait now for this whole thing to run it's course.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

. What scares me are those who think Zimmerman is a hero or are unwilling to believe that he did ANYTHING wrong.

So what did he do that was wrong ?

 

[hornadylnl]

So what did he do that was wrong ?

So what did Martin do wrong to cause Zimmerman to already convict Martin in his mind as a criminal and warrant his attention?

I'm fearful of Zimmerman being railroaded and wrongfully convicted. I'm just as fearful of the mindset that we're all cops and it's our duty to save the world.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

So what did Martin do wrong to cause Zimmerman to already convict Martin in his mind as a criminal and warrant his attention?

From the latest video about it , GZ says in his own words (I'm paraphrasing) that TM was standing around and looking at peoples houses and he thought that behavior was weird because it was raining .

I'm fearful of Zimmerman being railroaded and wrongfully convicted. I'm just as fearful of the mindset that we're all cops and it's our duty to save the world.

I get what you're saying but IMO , it's disgusting that far too many people these days are apathetic (as long as they aren't directly involved) and choose to look away instead of getting involved .

 

[hornadylnl]

I get what you're saying but IMO , it's disgusting that far too many people these days are apathetic (as long as they aren't directly involved) and choose to look away instead of getting involved .

Be careful of what you wish for. Who should get involved and for what? Should my neighbors call in a no knock drug raid because my assets aren't comensurate with my income? Why I gotta be selling drugs or something. Should the bank customer call you in for a bank robbery when they see you oc'ing in the bank while depositing your paycheck? Should the store clerk report you for buying cold medicine and batteries? You've got to be cooking meth. Your son wrecks his bike and goes to school the next day with bumps and bruises. His teacher reports you for child abuse.

The possibilities are endless. Peoples imaginations can run wild when they only have 1 figment of reality. In Zimmerman's eyes, he had already convicted Martin of being the neighborhood thief that always gets away. What did Zimmerman see? A teenaged black kid walking in the neighborhood. It was raining. So what? Do robberies only happen when it's raining? You've never left somewhere walking and it started raining afterwards? All that is enough to dial 911 and tell the operator that these *******s always get away?

You're walking down the road and a guy is in his vehicle following you. He's staring at you and talking on the phone. He gets out of his vehicle and follows in your direction and never identifies himself or what his purpose is. Do you think he's offering you a ride to get out of the rain? Do you think he's going to invite you to the neighborhood bbq?

Many here seem uncomfortable when our government is being nosy about our lives. Many here seem uncomfortable with the "See something, say something" mantra our government is pushing on us. If I'm uncomfortable with my government prying into my life, why should I be comfortable for Joe Blow citizen prying into my life?

 

[Blackhawk2001]

So what did Martin do wrong to cause Zimmerman to already convict Martin in his mind as a criminal and warrant his attention?

I'm fearful of Zimmerman being railroaded and wrongfully convicted. I'm just as fearful of the mindset that we're all cops and it's our duty to save the world.

I get what you're saying but IMO , it's disgusting that far too many people these days are apathetic (as long as they aren't directly involved) and choose to look away instead of getting involved .

hornadylnl, you keep bringing up the "cop mindset". Z. was performing the duties of a neighborhood watch volunteer, nothing more. M. was, by Z.'s account (his cell phone call to the police) acting in a suspicious manner similar to other people who had been burglarizing the neighborhood. He was statutorily protected by Florida Statute from harassment or assault by others while in performance of his Neighborhood Watch duties. If M. approached him in an aggressive manner or said: "Watchoo doin' followin' me, *********", M. was committing a misdemeanor against Z. We don't know it happened that way; that's what the trial will decide, but Z. - up to the point where the confrontation ensued - was legal legal legal.

 

[hornadylnl]

hornadylnl, you keep bringing up the "cop mindset". Z. was performing the duties of a neighborhood watch volunteer, nothing more. M. was, by Z.'s account (his cell phone call to the police) acting in a suspicious manner similar to other people who had been burglarizing the neighborhood. He was statutorily protected by Florida Statute from harassment or assault by others while in performance of his Neighborhood Watch duties. If M. approached him in an aggressive manner or said: "Watchoo doin' followin' me, *********", M. was committing a misdemeanor against Z. We don't know it happened that way; that's what the trial will decide, but Z. - up to the point where the confrontation ensued - was legal legal legal.

You already know my opinion of neighborhood watch groups. They rank right up there with mall cops and rent a cops. Is Zimmerman the person with the type of character you want patrolling your neighborhood?

 

[Blackhawk2001]

You already know my opinion of neighborhood watch groups. They rank right up there with mall cops and rent a cops. Is Zimmerman the person with the type of character you want patrolling your neighborhood?

Why not? He took the initiative to watch out for his friends and neighbors; I haven't heard or read anything from his neighbors complaining that he was overzealous or overbearing. And - he volunteered to do something about the crime in his neighborhood rather than sitting home guarding his own and to hell with the others. Doesn't seem to have been a nasty individual. I might have had a problem with his seeming-progressive views, but I've got neighbors like that now and we just agree to disagree. By all accounts I think I'd rather have him for a neighbor than you with your attitude.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Be careful of what you wish for. Who should get involved and for what?

Examples ;

If your house was burning down while your at work , you'd want a neighbor to call the firemen wouldn't you ?

If your neighbor sees somebody "new / never seen before" enter your house while you're gone , then you pull up in your drive , you'd want them to give you a "heads up" wouldn't you ?

My local CVS lady said her sister was beat down in her front yard , in broad daylight by her husband and nobody got involved . She had to call the police on him .

I have a retired neighbor that walks / drives around our neighborhood just about every day .

He is considered "nosy" by a couple of my other neighbors because he's always looking around , checking to see what's going on .

I love the fact that he's nosy , in my mind he's probably gonna spot trouble long before it becomes an issue .

In my mind , if I see somebody walking in the rain , taking their time , looking around at folks houses instead of minding their own business and walking intently , with purpose to their house (to get out of the rain) , I'd call that suspicious behavior .

 

[hornadylnl]

Why not? He took the initiative to watch out for his friends and neighbors; I haven't heard or read anything from his neighbors complaining that he was overzealous or overbearing. And - he volunteered to do something about the crime in his neighborhood rather than sitting home guarding his own and to hell with the others. Doesn't seem to have been a nasty individual. I might have had a problem with his seeming-progressive views, but I've got neighbors like that now and we just agree to disagree. By all accounts I think I'd rather have him for a neighbor than you with your attitude.

So you've missed the stories of residents complaining about his actions. His coworkers complaining about how he treated muslim coworkers. I'm sure these are all bogus news sources. These accusations have been printed by several sources since the beginning. I only spent a few minutes searching and this is what I came up with. Again, is he of the character that you want patrolling your neighborhood?

Trayvon Martin shot dead: Police say there's no evidence to dispute claim that neighbourhood watch captain George Zimmerman acted in self-defence | Mail Online

George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin

George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin's Killer, Has A Long History Of Violence | All In The Koolaid
George Zimmerman’s Former Co-Worker Alleges Racist Remarks

 

[hornadylnl]

Examples ;

If your house was burning down while your at work , you'd want a neighbor to call the firemen wouldn't you ?

Spotting smoke and calling is the same as performing roving fire watch?

If your neighbor sees somebody "new / never seen before" enter your house while you're gone , then you pull up in your drive , you'd want them to give you a "heads up" wouldn't you ?

While he's at it, he should call the swat team. It could be my brother from out of state.

My local CVS lady said her sister was beat down in her front yard , in broad daylight by her husband and nobody got involved . She had to call the police on him .

Was anybody in a position to help? Were they carrying or had some other means to overpower the husband?

I have a retired neighbor that walks / drives around our neighborhood just about every day .

He is considered "nosy" by a couple of my other neighbors because he's always looking around , checking to see what's going on .

Old white guy being nosy, ok. Young black kid being nosy, criminal.

I love the fact that he's nosy , in my mind he's probably gonna spot trouble long before it becomes an issue .

In my mind , if I see somebody walking in the rain , taking their time , looking around at folks houses instead of minding their own business and walking intently , with purpose to their house (to get out of the rain) , I'd call that suspicious behavior .

And I call a stranger following me in a vehicle, staring at me, and getting out and moving in my direction without identifying himself as the nwc suspicious behavior.

 

[terrehautian]

Stop, I am neighborhood watch..... yeah, that will get people to stop....

 

[hornadylnl]

Stop, I am neighborhood watch..... yeah, that will get people to stop....

You mean it's not a position that commands respect? I wonder why.

 

[jbombelli]

And I call a stranger following me in a vehicle, staring at me, and getting out and moving in my direction without identifying himself as the nwc suspicious behavior.

So would you call the cops on the guy, or go beat him to death for it?

 

[hornadylnl]

So would you call the cops on the guy, or go beat him to death for it?

Depends on how the events unfolded. Would I be able to escape? If so, I would and call once in a safe place. He ran off early on. Did he double back to find Zimmerman or did Zimmerman catch back up to him? You tell me as you seem to know exactly what happened. If the guy following me engaged me, I would use whatever means necessary to defend myself up to and including beating him to death. After all, isn't that what you're claiming Zimmerman did? If Martin started the fight, zimmerman used whatever means necessary (shooting him) to end the threat. Why shouldn't Martin be entitled to the same right to self defense if Zimmerman started the fight? Oh that question is moot because we know without a shadow of a doubt that Martin instigated the whole thing.

 

[jbombelli]

Depends on how the events unfolded. Would I be able to escape? If so, I would and call once in a safe place. He ran off early on. Did he double back to find Zimmerman or did Zimmerman catch back up to him? You tell me as you seem to know exactly what happened. If the guy following me engaged me, I would use whatever means necessary to defend myself up to and including beating him to death. After all, isn't that what you're claiming Zimmerman did? If Martin started the fight, zimmerman used whatever means necessary (shooting him) to end the threat. Why shouldn't Martin be entitled to the same right to self defense if Zimmerman started the fight? Oh that question is moot because we know without a shadow of a doubt that Martin instigated the whole thing.

I didn't ask you anything about Zimmerman. I asked you what YOU would do. Because you seem awfully okay with killing someone over making you nervous. M didn't call the cops, did he? No. He didn't. He had Z down, and didn't try to get away.

Now. Would you beat a guy to death for following you and making you nervous? Don't deflect. It's a simple yes or no question. It's not that hard.

 

[hornadylnl]

I didn't ask you anything about Zimmerman. I asked you about what YOU would do.

I said what I would do. Depends on what my options were. Did read my whole post?