17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[Bond 281]

REALLY?

So citizens are going to be held accountable by the po-pos for calling in 'suspicious' things?

THAT'S really going to encourage citizens to view the police as an ally in the war on crime or terror or whatever...

If you call the police on someone you should be held accountable. If someone does it for a completely bogus reasons it's a waste of police time and taxpayer money, and a person was needlessly harassed.

Edit: And by accountable, I don't mean they should in turn be charged or harassed, but rather that they be able to give legitimate reasons why they made the call. If they are unable to do so, then they can get lectured.

 

[Hotdoger]

10-8, no report... now, let's go find the guy who called in that kid as suspicious, and see exactly why they believed so.

Wish they would do that with MWAG calls.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

It was in one of the police audio calls. The Sanford PD has taken those down so you can't listen to them now, but I did find this analysis of it. Best I can do for now.

Treeper Lee M sends this audio analysis with graphic consideration…. | The Last Refuge



I did not say there was a witness to who threw the first punch (although there might have been but as far as we know, no, the police have not indicated that). What I said was: Zimmerman was taken to the scene for walk-throughs three different times in the immediate aftermath. Each time, according the to police reports, he was grilled about exactly what happened and how. He was also told there were eye witnesses to the events of that night, although he had absolutely no idea what they had seen.

In each walk-through, and in each interview, his story never changed. Not once. And every credible eye witness backs up his story to a tee.

The police told him there were witnesses. The police did not tell him how many or what they saw. I suspect that is a technique LEOs use to pressure people into telling the truth, knowing they can be shown to be lying if witnesses say otherwise. So Zimmerman recreated the shooting, and not only didn't his story change, but it didn't contradict anything the witnesses did tell the police. Nothing. Either Zimmerman told the truth or he is really, really lucky. Zimmerman's statement was that Trayvon sucker-punched him and jumped on top when Zimmerman hit the ground.
Police investigation. We know about them because someone in the SPD leaked them to the press. Afterward, when the press confronted the SPD, they admitted the witness reports backed up Zimmerman. This has been posted here in this thread. More than once.

There was one cop who didn't believe Zimmerman, although he had not a single shred of proof. He wanted Zimmerman to have to stand trial. Even in court so far the LEOs have stated they have no evidence to indicate that Zimmerman was lying in anything he said.

There are people here who feel the same way. Make him stand trial. I know a cop on another board who thinks his job is to arrest everyone and let the legal system sort it out.

Of course, if Z made a case for SYG, he shouldn't have been arrested, because that's what the statute says. And it appears that's the way the situation was working out until M's parents hired a lawyer to get "justice".

 

[cobber]

If you call the police on someone you should be held accountable. If someone does it for a completely bogus reasons it's a waste of police time and taxpayer money, and a person was needlessly harassed.

Edit: And by accountable, I don't mean they should in turn be charged or harassed, but rather that they be able to give legitimate reasons why they made the call. If they are unable to do so, then they can get lectured.

I'm going to disagree. There's a difference between calling about something that just feels wrong, and making up a story to get the police to hassle someone.

Do police REALLY have the time to check back on every call that doesn't pan out, and how do you hold a citizen responsible, when they thought, e.g., they were possibly protecting a neighbor--you maybe--from being burgled by calling the police. Better that people call on hunches than that they don't call at all, or that they go hold 'criminals' at gunpoint like Gomer and Goober a few weeks back.

There should be no police follow-up on citizen calls, unless they are patently false and malicious.

A lecture? No thank you.

Good grief.

 

[Glock19]

Is it the duty of Zimmerman as the neighborhood watch captain to stop any people he doesn't recognize in a private gated community? Not being recognized as a resident of the community and being in the community is suspicious, is it not? Did Trayvon have a right to be there as a guest of his father who lived in the community? Does a resident have a duty to let others in the community know who their guests are? If not, how does one eliminate the confusion of an unrecognized person in the community when spotted by the neighborhood watch captain?

If someone is acting suspicious in his neighborhood it is his duty to stop them, even if he knows them...

 

[Bond 281]

I'm going to disagree. There's a difference between calling about something that just feels wrong, and making up a story to get the police to hassle someone.

Do police REALLY have the time to check back on every call that doesn't pan out, and how do you hold a citizen responsible, when they thought, e.g., they were possibly protecting a neighbor--you maybe--from being burgled by calling the police. Better that people call on hunches than that they don't call at all, or that they go hold 'criminals' at gunpoint like Gomer and Goober a few weeks back.

There should be no police follow-up on citizen calls, unless they are patently false and malicious.

A lecture? No thank you.

Good grief.

Well you can't really figure out maliciousness without talking to the caller. Patently false you can get a good idea. I don't see how a cop asking some basic questions when you sicced him on somebody to...ask some basic questions! is so unreasonable.

 

[cobber]

Well you can't really figure out maliciousness without talking to the caller. Patently false you can get a good idea. I don't see how a cop asking some basic questions when you sicced him on somebody to...ask some basic questions! is so unreasonable.

Sure it's reasonable. Just don't expect me to call the police about your burglar, if it means I'm going to get investigated for calling about the prowler at your house who disappears before the officers arrive.

If I make a call in good faith, I am not interested in Officer Krupke giving me a "lecture".

 

[Bond 281]

Sure it's reasonable. Just don't expect me to call the police about your burglar, if it means I'm going to get investigated for calling about the prowler at your house who disappears before the officers arrive.

If I make a call in good faith, I am not interested in Officer Krupke giving me a "lecture".

The "lecture" would ideally just be for totally frivolous calls. There would be evidence of a burglar, and you can damn sure be expected to be asked about what you saw.

 

[Glock19]

You know how many "suspicious" characters change their minds about doing a crime after they see someone has paid attention and seen them... Calling 911 about suspicious people is good. Think of it as this, if 1 out of ten times it possibly saved someone from being robbed,beaten , or murdered, because the guy saw the cops in the neighborhood, was it worth it?

 

[Glock19]

Trayvon Martin Witness Believes 'He Intended for This Kid to Die' - Yahoo! News
Its news like this that irks me....

 

[Expat]

If we start investigating the callers, the greater likelihood that Spike Lee tweets their address to his lynch mob.

 

[cobber]

The "lecture" would ideally just be for totally frivolous calls. There would be evidence of a burglar [like what, fingerprints?], and you can damn sure be expected to be asked about what you saw.

That's a lot of qualifiers.

Being investigated for being a good neighbor? No thanks, then. You're on your own.

If I'm called into question for watching out for other folks, well, then, I'll just MMOB.

I'll let George do it. See where that got him.

 

[Expat]

That's a lot of qualifiers.

Being investigated for being a good neighbor? No thanks, then. You're on your own.

If I'm called into question for watching out for other folks, well, then, I'll just MMOB.

I'll let George do it. See where that got him.

The basement is going to get crowded if everyone is down there cowering...

 

[cobber]

The basement is going to get crowded if everyone is down there cowering...

No cowering. If he's not breaking into my house, then it's not my problem. (If calling the po pos gets me a 'lecture' for being a good citizen.)

Let George do it. It's all about George anyway.

 

[hornadylnl]

We wouldn't want the police talking to the people making MWG calls on legal citizens to educate them on the law.

 

[Expat]

No cowering. If he's not breaking into my house, then it's not my problem. (If calling the po pos gets me a 'lecture' for being a good citizen.)

Let George do it. It's all about George anyway.

I guess we can do like the neighbor of the Goshen home invasion murder from last year. Sit behind the window and listen to the neighbor scream as he is beat to death.

 

[cobber]

I guess we can do like the neighbor of the Goshen home invasion murder from last year. Sit behind the window and listen to the neighbor scream as he is beat to death.

My point. Do we want people to be active, or do we want to threaten folks with police investigations if the information doesn't pan out?

Nuisance calls are another matter, but that's an actual offense.

I would have thought we would prefer people to err on the side of protecting each other. But if we're going to sic the cops on folks who make calls that lead nowhere, then we're going to create a society where no one lifts a finger to help someone else.

Again, this is really another thread, although it's related to the idea of neighborhood watches.

Sometimes people will call on a hunch. Maybe they're wrong. Hopefully no one gets hurt. Do we want to encourage, or discourage, people doing this?

I'm guessing George will choose not to get involved in future.

 

[Bond 281]

My point. Do we want people to be active, or do we want to threaten folks with police investigations if the information doesn't pan out?

Nuisance calls are another matter, but that's an actual offense.

I would have thought we would prefer people to err on the side of protecting each other. But if we're going to sic the cops on folks who make calls that lead nowhere, then we're going to create a society where no one lifts a finger to help someone else.

Again, this is really another thread, although it's related to the idea of neighborhood watches.

Sometimes people will call on a hunch. Maybe they're wrong. Hopefully no one gets hurt. Do we want to encourage, or discourage, people doing this?

I'm guessing George will choose not to get involved in future.

Investigations? Where are you getting this from? If you call in about a suspicious person and the cop doesn't see him doing anything why wouldn't he ask you about what you saw? You can explain why you thought he was shady.

 

[printcraft]

Trayvon Martin Witness Believes 'He Intended for This Kid to Die' - Yahoo! News
Its news like this that irks me....

Holy cow...... there was so much opinion in that "news report" it made me sick.


I think anything coming out of the MSM should be labeled a "news story".

"Tell me another bedtime story grandpa!" "Well jimmy, once upon a time........."

 

[griffin]

We wouldn't want the police talking to the people making MWG calls on legal citizens to educate them on the law.

We're not talking about a MWAG call. And you are one of the ones who keeps saying Trayvon wasn't doing anything illegal. Remember what the Sanford Police Department Neighborhood Watch Handbook states:

Residents within a neighborhood know who belongs there and who does not, what looks normal, what looks suspicious and these same residents are in the neighborhood full time.

Our motto, "We Look Out For Each Other!", means exactly what it says. As a participant, your ability to observe and recognize what is usual and customary comes as a result of paying attention and focusing your mind on the daily, ordinary, happenings in your neighborhood.

Being a Neighborhood Watch participant does not mean you are being a busybody," or you are invading anyone's privacy, or that you are snooping. It does mean that you are aware for potential trouble and you are living up to our motto, 'We Look Out For Each Other!'​

The "lecture" would ideally just be for totally frivolous calls.

Your police department appreciates you acting as their extra eyes and ears. Sometimes your suspicions are unfounded. If you are wrong, they understand you will not always be right, but you will not be in trouble with them.

"Don't hesitate to call."​