17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[Bond 281]

None of which I've been arguing. My point is that I should be able to walk in a public space free from having to show my papers at a Nazi checkpoint.

I've said multiple times that I don't think Zimmerman is guilty of a crime. My beef is that he got himself involved in a situation and has some culpability in how it unfolded.

Take away all the race, age and other issues out of this and post it here as a hypothetical. Kid walking down the street who you feel is suspicious. You see no evidence of a crime being committed. What do you do? Quotes from other threads were posted previously in this thread and there were several saying not to insert yourself in a dangerous situation. Self defense is not offense.

Seeing as how he was the neighborhood watch captain in a neighborhood that had numerous robberies perpetrated by young black males...would it not be his responsibility to investigate a bit? Especially given that we can now reasonably believe that Martin was high at the time? From what I've gathered it seems like he was walking around high, going in between houses and looking around and not just walking down the sidewalk. Certainly sounds suspicious. I understand the aversion to Nazi checkpoints and all that, but if a person IS acting suspicious is there no justification for not checking them out?

 

[hornadylnl]

Seeing as how he was the neighborhood watch captain in a neighborhood that had numerous robberies perpetrated by young black males...would it not be his responsibility to investigate a bit? Especially given that we can now reasonably believe that Martin was high at the time? From what I've gathered it seems like he was walking around high, going in between houses and looking around and not just walking down the sidewalk. Certainly sounds suspicious. I understand the aversion to Nazi checkpoints and all that, but if a person IS acting suspicious is there no justification for not checking them out?

You have read where the police said there was no evidence that Martin commited any crime, right?

 

[Bond 281]

You have read where the police said there was no evidence that Martin commited any crime, right?

I'm not saying that he was committing a crime. I'm just saying he was suspicious. I think people have a right to check out people acting suspiciously in their neighborhoods. I'm not saying it was a justification by itself to shoot him, or arrest him, or whatever. Simply that it's justifiable to check out a stranger acting shady in your neighborhood.

 

[jamil]

You have read where the police said there was no evidence that Martin commited any crime, right?

Acting suspiciously isn't a crime itself, but given the context, it does make it easy to suspect that he's up to no good.

 

[hornadylnl]

I'm not saying that he was committing a crime. I'm just saying he was suspicious. I think people have a right to check out people acting suspiciously in their neighborhoods. I'm not saying it was a justification by itself to shoot him, or arrest him, or whatever. Simply that it's justifiable to check out a stranger acting shady in your neighborhood.

Acting suspiciously isn't a crime itself, but given the context, it does make it easy to suspect that he's up to no good.

Is any of that justification for a LEO to stop Martin?

 

[jamil]

Is any of that justification for a LEO to stop Martin?

Did anyone stop Martin?

ETA: Z called LEO because Martin looked "suspicious". Had LEO gotten there before anything else happened they'd have stopped M, asked a few questions, and that'd probably been it.

 

[Bond 281]

Is any of that justification for a LEO to stop Martin?

Actually, yeah. He was a stranger acting suspiciously in a gated (private) community. If he was walking between houses, I guess that could be trespassing. I mean really: Strange person in the highest crime demographic in the US, which is also the demographic responsible for numerous robberies in the neighborhood, unknown to somebody who knows his neighborhood, acting erratically walking around in the rain, walking between houses and looking around for no apparent reason instead of on the sidewalk. Do you think Zimmerman was unjustified in calling the police about this person? I'm not saying he should have been arrested or anything, but suspicion of trespassing in a private community based on the judgement of the neighborhood watch captain, ie the guy responsible for this sort of thing, is certainly reason to stop him.

Edit: Besides, LEO didn't stop Martin, nor did Zimmerman as far as we know.

 

[Pocketman]

nvm

 

[cobber]

Did anyone stop Martin?

Don't expect an answer from the usual suspect.

Change of topic in 3, 2, 1...

 

[Bond 281]

Don't expect an answer from the usual suspect.

Change of topic in 3, 2, 1...

Well to be fair Zimmerman's reason for following Martin was so the cops could stop him.

 

[hornadylnl]

Did anyone stop Martin?

ETA: Z called LEO because Martin looked "suspicious". Had LEO gotten there before anything else happened they'd have stopped M, asked a few questions, and that'd probably been it.

Actually, yeah. He was a stranger acting suspiciously in a gated (private) community. If he was walking between houses, I guess that could be trespassing. I mean really: Strange person in the highest crime demographic in the US, which is also the demographic responsible for numerous robberies in the neighborhood, unknown to somebody who knows his neighborhood, acting erratically walking around in the rain, walking between houses and looking around for no apparent reason instead of on the sidewalk. Do you think Zimmerman was unjustified in calling the police about this person? I'm not saying he should have been arrested or anything, but suspicion of trespassing in a private community based on the judgement of the neighborhood watch captain, ie the guy responsible for this sort of thing, is certainly reason to stop him.

Edit: Besides, LEO didn't stop Martin, nor did Zimmerman as far as we know.

Don't expect an answer from the usual suspect.

Change of topic in 3, 2, 1...

Where are the sources as to the first verbal or physical contact? Where is the proof that Martin started it or where is the proof that Zimmerman started it? You all speak as though you were there first hand to witness it. The only witness reports that I've seen have been after the fight started.

So the lessen of this whole thing is that if you're a young black kid walking around in that neighborhood, expect to be stopped, questioned, harassed, etc and kiss the shoes of those doing it.

How many countless posts have their been on INGO about open carriers being stopped and questioned by police and how many of those posts state that the LEO had no legal authority to do so?

ETA: We don't know if Zimmerman stopped Martin or who addressed who first. All we have is the word of a criminal justice major who unless is a total failure in class knows that he may have just gotten himself into a heap load of trouble.

AGAIN, THERE IS NOTHING TO CONVICT HERE. I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND THE NEED TO JUSTIFY HIS ACTIONS.

 

[jamil]

How does a person's injuries indicate self defense?

Do you remember the threats back when ABC aired the video of Z seamingly absent of any injuries. No injuries mean no self defence. Injuries mean possibly self defence.

 

[Glock19]

Must not be cut out for neighborhood watching or being a cop.

Why because he got he crap beat out of him?you know how many cops have the same thing done to them? Plenty and worse...

 

[churchmouse]

This is going nowhere fast. A lot of posting, a lot of opinions and a lot of silly non fact crap.
WOW..........................

 

[hornadylnl]

This is going nowhere fast. A lot of posting, a lot of opinions and a lot of silly non fact crap.
WOW..........................

There's a lot of facts being stated with no sourcing.

 

[hornadylnl]

Do you remember the threats back when ABC aired the video of Z seamingly absent of any injuries. No injuries mean no self defence. Injuries mean possibly self defence.

Injuries are not proof of self defense. Plenty of people start a fight and get their asses kicked.

 

[jamil]

Where are the sources as to the first verbal or physical contact? Where is the proof that Martin started it or where is the proof that Zimmerman started it? You all speak as though you were there first hand to witness it. The only witness reports that I've seen have been after the fight started.

So the lessen of this whole thing is that if you're a young black kid walking around in that neighborhood, expect to be stopped, questioned, harassed, etc and kiss the shoes of those doing it.

How many countless posts have their been on INGO about open carriers being stopped and questioned by police and how many of those posts state that the LEO had no legal authority to do so?

ETA: We don't know if Zimmerman stopped Martin or who addressed who first. All we have is the word of a criminal justice major who unless is a total failure in class knows that he may have just gotten himself into a heap load of trouble.

AGAIN, THERE IS NOTHING TO CONVICT HERE. I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND THE NEED TO JUSTIFY HIS ACTIONS.

No I speak as though there isn't evidence to conclude anything else.

Someone called the cops on this kid. Of course LEO will question him.

As for open carriers, it's not the same thing. If I'm a NWC in a gated community and I see someone I dont recognize as living there, and he's acting "suspiciously", I'd prolly call the cops. If he's acting suspiciously while armed, I might even dial faster. If he's just walking down the sidwalk while armed, I may think nothing of it.

 

[hornadylnl]

No I speak as though there isn't evidence to conclude anything else.

Someone called the cops on this kid. Of course LEO will question him.

As for open carriers, it's not the same thing. If I'm a NWC in a gated community and I see someone I dont recognize as living there, and he's acting "suspiciously", I'd prolly call the cops. If he's acting suspiciously while armed, I might even dial faster. If he's just walking down the sidwalk while armed, I may think nothing of it.

I'm glad we can quantify "suspiciously".

I guess this whole thing is Martin's dads fault for not properly introducing and registering his visiting son with the supreme neighborhood watch commander.

ETA: You're right, there is no evidence to conclude anything else. I just don't understand why some are so hellbent on keeping any inkling of blame from Zimmerman for how these events unfolded. The investigators seemed to think he bore some responsibility for it. Even a few thought he should be charged. I'm not sure what evidence anyone here has that the investigators didn't.

 

[jamil]

Injuries are not proof of self defense. Plenty of people start a fight and get their asses kicked.

Point was without injuries the procecution's job is easy. With injuries it's harder.

 

[jamil]

I'm glad we can quantify "suspiciously".

I guess this whole thing is Martin's dads fault for not properly introducing and registering his visiting son with the supreme neighborhood watch commander.

Dude, I don't see how you get there from here.