17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[Kirk Freeman]

Well, Carmel, who knows, those questions may be on the mind of the jurors (assuming the case gets beyond the summary judgment phase of the Florida law).

 

[Kutnupe14]

But where is the evidence that contradicts Zimmerman's statement that Martin confronted him on his way back to his vehicle.

Well, I'll be honest, this doesnt make sense to me either. Based on where Zimmerman's vehicle was placed, and where the altercation took place, why was Zimmerman on his way back to his vehicle?
Did he give Martin a piece of his mind and then say "ok, gotta go now"? Did he peek around a corner and say "Ah, there you are, gotta run"? Did he tell Martin what a bad boy he was, and say "and now, I'm gonna tell on you"? It makes no sense, at least to me, that Zimmerman would go so far simply to turn around and head back to his vehicle.
Unless of course one think that Zimmerman was walking back to his vehicle after checking the rear of residences for their addresses.

 

[Kutnupe14]

"Zimmerman exited his vehicle against the wishes of a dispatcher"

I'm sure the dispatcher wished Z had not exited his vehicle. EVERYONE except Al Sharpton wishes that. But can you demonstrate from the known facts exactly what dispatcher's statement Z disregarded.

I'm not sure I'm following what you are getting at.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

It makes no sense, at least to me, that Zimmerman would go so far simply to turn around and head back to his vehicle.

Perhaps he thought that discretion is the better part of valor? Perhaps he took to heart what the 911 dispatcher told him and broke off his tail?

Have you decided to do something and then reconsidered and turned on your heel?

"I want Fig Newtons . . . no, I don't *turns and walks back down grocery store aisle*"

 

[Kutnupe14]

Perhaps he thought that discretion is the better part of valor? Perhaps he took to heart what the 911 dispatcher told him and broke off his tail?

Have you decided to do something and then reconsidered and turned on your heel?

"I want Fig Newtons . . . no, I don't *turns and walks back down grocery store aisle*"

That's completely possible.

 

[jamil]

I'm not sure I'm following what you are getting at.

you said Zimmerman exited his vehicle against the wishes of a dispatcher. This and other statements you've made in this thread implies that you believe Z is responsible because he disregarded the instructions of the police. The media reported it that way, but I'm asking you to tell me how the facts known today support that.

 

[bobzilla]

There are some trying to insinuate that Martin being a pot smoker is proof that he was a thug. When INGOers do it, it's a youthful mistake.

Nope. I don't condone it for anyone. You want to risk destroying your life for an illegal toke, go for it. But don't expect me to feel sorry for you when you continue to make poor likfe decisions.

 

[Glock19]

Kutnupe14, all those quotes really made me laugh. Avoidance isnt really possible to be a good community watch person. Nothing he did by getting out of the vehicle is illegal. The defense rattles off alot of their evidence while people keep pressing on the prosecutors comments about we have evidence...WHAT EVIDENCE? Zimmerman handled the situation stupidly but the same thing could have happened if Zimmerman was on foot that night instead of in his vehicle. Zimmerman was in the beginning seemingly trying to do the right thing. Until it can be proven for sure who the aggressor was, he did NOTHING illegal...
And for those who keep saying he ignored the orders of police, most dispatchers arent police....they are just regular phone operators working for the county, city, etc, sometimes working for the police.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Zimmerman was not talking to a dispatcher, he was talking with a 911 operator. The operator did not tell him not to exit his vehicle, Z was told we do not need you to do that, Z said OK, and then said I lost him. Didnt anyone listen to the 911 call or read the transcript?

 

[hornadylnl]

Nope. I don't condone it for anyone. You want to risk destroying your life for an illegal toke, go for it. But don't expect me to feel sorry for you when you continue to make poor likfe decisions.

Never touched the stuff.

 

[hornadylnl]

Kut,

In the quotes you posted, those cases probably didn't involve Sharpton, Jackson, twitter pics, and Mary Jane.

 

[Pocketman]

Zimmerman was not talking to a dispatcher, he was talking with a 911 operator. The operator did not tell him not to exit his vehicle, Z was told we do not need you to do that, Z said OK, and then said I lost him. Didnt anyone listen to the 911 call or read the transcript?

Kutnupe14, all those quotes really made me laugh. Avoidance isnt really possible to be a good community watch person. Nothing he did by getting out of the vehicle is illegal. The defense rattles off alot of their evidence while people keep pressing on the prosecutors comments about we have evidence...WHAT EVIDENCE? Zimmerman handled the situation stupidly but the same thing could have happened if Zimmerman was on foot that night instead of in his vehicle. Zimmerman was in the beginning seemingly trying to do the right thing. Until it can be proven for sure who the aggressor was, he did NOTHING illegal...
And for those who keep saying he ignored the orders of police, most dispatchers arent police....they are just regular phone operators working for the county, city, etc, sometimes working for the police.

This BS about “dispatcher” and “911 operator” is obviously from people who are not familiar with modern public safety operations. Most of these “regular phone operators” are very specialized and trained specifically for the type of calls they handle. Many states, including Florida, have certification standards. Some communities consider them resource managers and actually pay them more than police officers. Regardless, of who was on the phone with Z, there wasn’t any “order” given, only a suggestion.

A lot of piecemeal evidence and conjecture running around in this thread. Seems to be some "don't confuse me the facts, my minds made up" attitude as well.

Looking at this incident holistically, there's something that compelled the police investigator to seek manslaughter charges and subsequently, the prosecutor's murder rap. The racial and gun toting aspects make good news, but not really relevant to the actual incident.

I’ve read most of this thread, but admittedly not 100%. Perhaps someone raised this question up stream. Martin knew Zimmerman was following him, but who did M think Z was? Police reported that Z never identified himself to M. Did M know Z was the community watch captain? Perhaps M thought Z was setting him up?

Z thinks M is a burglar. M thinks Z is a mugger. Not a good combination.

 

[CarmelHP]

Well, Carmel, who knows, those questions may be on the mind of the jurors (assuming the case gets beyond the summary judgment phase of the Florida law).

I do know that the SYG law is a legal defense, and Martin, who is not charged and is beyond the reach of any prosecution, is unlikely to claim it, or to testify to his state of mind, or to claim that Zimmerman attacked him. Maybe we can have Kutnupe14 testify as to his rampant speculation of what happened, but I doubt it.

 

[bobzilla]

I’ve read most of this thread, but admittedly not 100%. Perhaps someone raised this question up stream. Martin knew Zimmerman was following him, but who did M think Z was? Police reported that Z never identified himself to M. Did M know Z was the community watch captain? Perhaps M thought Z was setting him up?

Z thinks M is a burglar. M thinks Z is a mugger. Not a good combination.

Here's my take on this. If you think that the person following you is a mugger, do you hide, then come out behind him and initiate a fight? Or do you finish going the last half block to your home and call the police? If you're truly scared, you don't confront them in that manner and you surely don't punch them in the face.

 

[Pocketman]

Here's my take on this. If you think that the person following you is a mugger, do you hide, then come out behind him and initiate a fight? Or do you finish going the last half block to your home and call the police? If you're truly scared, you don't confront them in that manner and you surely don't punch them in the face.

I don't know what Martin was thinking, hence all the discussion. Some (if not most) of us would certainly handle the situation differently than Martin and Zimmerman. Goes back to the perfect storm scenario. Two rational people and this would likely not have ended tragically. One or both being irrational, and the milieu changes.

 

[KG1]

Hence the IANAL
(1)

This is the part I noticed but in all fairness I'll have to give you credit for presenting a well thought out case to support your stance that George Zimmerman's life should be ruined.

 

[bobzilla]

This is the part I noticed but in all fairness I'll have to give you credit for presenting a well thought out case to support your stance that George Zimmerman's life should be ruined.

absolutely. he has presented a well thought out case for that. Wait... no he hasn't. Oh.... I see what you did there!

 

[Expat]

What's with the discussion on disregarding the operator? I thought that was disposed of weeks ago. As I recall, it was stated long ago by the powers that be down in Sanford that there was no duty for Zimmerman to follow the suggestion by the operator to not follow Martin. So if there was no legal compulsion, Zimmerman could follow Martin around all he wanted to.

 

[jamil]

What's with the discussion on disregarding the operator? I thought that was disposed of weeks ago. As I recall, it was stated long ago by the powers that be down in Sanford that there was no duty for Zimmerman to follow the suggestion by the operator to not follow Martin. So if there was no legal compulsion, Zimmerman could follow Martin around all he wanted to.

I guess it wasn't settled here. Apparently some still accept the original media narrative and think Martin would be alive today if only Zimmerman would have followed the commands of the police.

 

[printcraft]

.....
Looking at this incident holistically, there's something that compelled the police investigator to seek manslaughter charges and subsequently, the prosecutor's murder rap........

Riots? Appeasement?