17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[IndyDave1776]

Shouldn't they be beating up hispanics? or at least whites AND hispanics? You know, to cover both bases.

You must NOT expect reasonable behavior from inherently irrational individuals! I know you know better than that!

 

[thebishopp]

If people don't want to be the victim of crimes then they shouldn't do or have anything which may make them a victim.

Don't want to be robbed, then don't have money or things that other people want. If you do then you put yourself in the position to get robbed.

Don't want to be raped, then make sure you are ugly or walk around in a sack cloth and face veil. If not you are just putting yourself in a position to get raped.

Don't want to have your home burgled, Then don't have a home. If you do then you are just putting yourself in the position to get burgled.

Sheesh.

BUT SERIOUSLY... Zimmerman wasn't doing anything "unlawful" (based on the evidence so far) PERIOD. Nothing else should matter. If it turns out that he was doing something "unlawful" then that is another matter.

 

[EvilBlackGun]

"Stand your ground"

Does this apply to stalking another civilian down the street? Was Zimmerman legal to carry a gun?

BUT SERIOUSLY... Zimmerman wasn't doing anything "unlawful" (based on the evidence so far) PERIOD. Nothing else should matter. If it turns out that he was doing something "unlawful" then that is another matter.

 

[EvilBlackGun]

It's O.K.

Kryptonite is a kinder, gentler isotope of Unobtanium.

Griffin, you forgot the Kryptonite!!!!!

 

[Roadie]

Does this apply to stalking another civilian down the street? Was Zimmerman legal to carry a gun?

Yes, he had a Florida permit to carry, and "following" and "stalking" are not only different things by definition, but in legality as well...

 

[Glock19]

How could he have been followed back to his truck if he never got out? If Martin tried attacking Zimmerman while he was in the truck, there were would be evidence proving that fact.

Instead, Zimmerman placed himself in a situation that has no "smoking gun" evidence to vindicate him. Your property is not worth my livelihood.

Take all the racial components out of this and make it a white on white crime. Post about it in the carry issues forum and I'd bet at least half of the posters would say it was a bad shoot or was not a situation where the shooter should have put himself in that position for ZERO evidence of a crime in progress.

Back to your race baitin hate fest.

Well according to you, if Zimmerman stayed in his truck only you know what Martin would have done...

 

[Glock19]

Does this apply to stalking another civilian down the street? Was Zimmerman legal to carry a gun?

Stalking? Doing his volunteer job as a neighborhood watch captain is making sure the people in the area are supposed to be there right?

 

[Fargo]

BUT SERIOUSLY... Zimmerman wasn't doing anything "unlawful" (based on the evidence so far) PERIOD. Nothing else should matter. If it turns out that he was doing something "unlawful" then that is another matter.

I have to disagree that "nothing else should matter". What is lawful is kinda of the barest lowest denominator of acceptable human conduct. There are tons of "lawful" action that are both wrong and/or stupid and that have real consequences.

Even if what Z did that night was completely lawful, I still put to you that it was stupid and stupid can and does hurt. In this case, it is hurting not only him, but every person who has an interest in keeping the self-defense laws favorable to those who simply wish to truly exercise that right.

Nevermind that a guy walking home with his junk food is now dead.

Joe

 

[IndyDave1776]

We find ourselves once again back to that troublesome point at which Zimmerman was either guilty of cold-blooded murder or else fired as a last ditch effort before his brain started running out his ears. Unfortunately, none of us know the answer to that question or even who initiated hostilities.

 

[churchmouse]

Wow, this just goes and goes and goes. I followed a young black male down the street 2 nights ago. I saw him up by my daughters SUV "In" the driveway "Off" the sidewalk "Near" the front porch. My son went around the back and I went out the front. He saw me and went to the sidewalk and started walking. I was behind him and my son intercepted him before he made the neighbors driveway. We walked behind him down to the corner and just let him know we were there. He did not look or acknowledge us in any way. When he made the corner he put on the afterburners and ran like the wind. Doubt he will come "LURKING" around anymore. Yes, I was armed. No, the police were not called. When seconds count, LEO is 20 minutes away.
What was he doing in our yard. I own both houses and they are posted no trespass. Does this make me a stalker. No, it makes me a property owner. My neighbors have called me in the night when something or someone frightens them. We take care of our own.

 

[Bond 281]

I have to disagree that "nothing else should matter". What is lawful is kinda of the barest lowest denominator of acceptable human conduct. There are tons of "lawful" action that are both wrong and/or stupid and that have real consequences.

Even if what Z did that night was completely lawful, I still put to you that it was stupid and stupid can and does hurt. In this case, it is hurting not only him, but every person who has an interest in keeping the self-defense laws favorable to those who simply wish to truly exercise that right.

Nevermind that a guy walking home with his junk food is now dead.

Joe

You presume too much. You don't know exactly what Zimmerman did, or why he exactly was out of his truck. Would it be stupid if he was out of his truck getting an address for the cops? I don't think so. It would be stupid if he kept following Martin or something, but those specifics aren't out there. You also presume that Martin was actually just walking home with junk food. We really don't know his intentions. Maybe he was looking to break into a house or something. I don't even necessarily think that he was, but it is possible considering that in one of his suspensions he was holding what would seem to be stolen property.

So yeah, basic point is that you don't know (and I don't) what the specific intentions Martin and Zimmerman had in whatever actions happened, which we also don't know. It's really too early to say that Zimmerman was stupid or not, and we'll likely never know if Martin was simply walking home with junk food or if maybe he did have a history of breaking into houses and just hadn't been caught.

And also, it should be pointed out that Martin was beating the **** out of a man calling for help. Not exactly just "walking home with his junk food." Martin's possible actions have a HUGE importance in the incident, and you seem to imply that Zimmerman is the only person who should be held accountable for his actions in this sequence of events. Granted he's the only one alive to be judged, but if you want to judge the situation fairly you have to take what Martin did into account too.

 

[thebishopp]

You must NOT expect reasonable behavior from inherently irrational individuals! I know you know better than that!

I forgot to put it in purple

 

[thebishopp]

I have to disagree that "nothing else should matter". What is lawful is kinda of the barest lowest denominator of acceptable human conduct. There are tons of "lawful" action that are both wrong and/or stupid and that have real consequences.

Even if what Z did that night was completely lawful, I still put to you that it was stupid and stupid can and does hurt. In this case, it is hurting not only him, but every person who has an interest in keeping the self-defense laws favorable to those who simply wish to truly exercise that right.

Nevermind that a guy walking home with his junk food is now dead.

Joe

If "favorable self defense" laws are so fragile and at risk then we got bigger problems then people doing "stupid" (what constitutes "stupid" being based on your opinion of course) but "lawful" actions that "endanger" them.

edit: I do find it interesting that we flip flop so much between what we view as "courageous" versus "stupid" depending on the public fall out of an action.

 

[thebishopp]

Wow, this just goes and goes and goes. I followed a young black male down the street 2 nights ago. I saw him up by my daughters SUV "In" the driveway "Off" the sidewalk "Near" the front porch. My son went around the back and I went out the front. He saw me and went to the sidewalk and started walking. I was behind him and my son intercepted him before he made the neighbors driveway. We walked behind him down to the corner and just let him know we were there. He did not look or acknowledge us in any way. When he made the corner he put on the afterburners and ran like the wind. Doubt he will come "LURKING" around anymore. Yes, I was armed. No, the police were not called. When seconds count, LEO is 20 minutes away.
What was he doing in our yard. I own both houses and they are posted no trespass. Does this make me a stalker. No, it makes me a property owner. My neighbors have called me in the night when something or someone frightens them. We take care of our own.

According to some your lawful actions were "stupid" and you have endangered the favorable self defense laws here in Indiana.

Shame on you.

 

[thebishopp]

Yes, he had a Florida permit to carry, and "following" and "stalking" are not only different things by definition, but in legality as well...

Glad to see common sense rear it's ugly head

 

[Fargo]

If "favorable self defense" laws are so fragile and at risk then we got bigger problems then people doing "stupid" (what constitutes "stupid" being based on your opinion of course) but "lawful" actions that "endanger" them.

edit: I do find it interesting that we flip flop so much between what we view as "courageous" versus "stupid" depending on the public fall out of an action.

So do you really believe that "lawfulness" is the sole denominator of the correctness of an action? Do you really want to rely on the "law" for that?

For example, Angela Corey's decision to proceed with a 2nd degree murder charge has already been ruled by a judge to be lawful. Is it not still possible that that action is stupid/wrong?

Also, contrary to your premise "courageous" and "stupid" are not mutually exclusive modifiers.

Joe

 

[thebishopp]

So do you really believe that "lawfulness" is the sole denominator of the correctness of an action? Do you really want to rely on the "law" for that?

For example, Angela Corey's decision to proceed with a 2nd degree murder charge has already been ruled by a judge to be lawful. Is it not still possible that that action is stupid/wrong?

Also, contrary to your premise "courageous" and "stupid" are not mutually exclusive modifiers.

Joe

Why is it "not lawful" that a charge be made? The government can charge you with just about anything. Even here in Indiana you can be "charged" for defending yourself regardless of how innocent or justified you think you were. Even in a blatantly cut and dry case you can be "charged"

A "charge" does not mean "guilt". He must still be convicted.

Now was the decision to "charge" "wrong/stupid". Well let's see. Probably "smart" and therefore "right" in that it will appease the outraged masses...

Yes, many "courageous" acts would be called "stupid", especially by cowards.

 

[churchmouse]

According to some your lawful actions were "stupid" and you have endangered the favorable self defense laws here in Indiana.

Shame on you.

My point in posting. Many have lost the will and or ability to fend for themselves.
Partially due to the madness that may come from it and also just plan scared to get involved. If this scenario (Z & T) had happened in our area the outcome would have been far different. Junk food in hand does not mean he did not intend to do something wrong. Actions as in body language, lurking and just acting wrong give away a persons intent most times. Just walking along does not single you out. Being in a gated area does if you are not from there. I would have openly questioned young "T" as to his intentions.
Privacy is a main reason for living in a gated area.

I am so ashamed of standing up for myself and my neighbors.

 

[Expat]

Wow, this just goes and goes and goes. I followed a young black male down the street 2 nights ago. I saw him up by my daughters SUV "In" the driveway "Off" the sidewalk "Near" the front porch. My son went around the back and I went out the front. He saw me and went to the sidewalk and started walking. I was behind him and my son intercepted him before he made the neighbors driveway. We walked behind him down to the corner and just let him know we were there. He did not look or acknowledge us in any way. When he made the corner he put on the afterburners and ran like the wind. Doubt he will come "LURKING" around anymore. Yes, I was armed. No, the police were not called. When seconds count, LEO is 20 minutes away.
What was he doing in our yard. I own both houses and they are posted no trespass. Does this make me a stalker. No, it makes me a property owner. My neighbors have called me in the night when something or someone frightens them. We take care of our own.

According to one of our resident experts, you should have called the police and then cowered in your basement until they arrived. You two were asking for a beating.

 

[jamil]

To clarify. Hating on the race baiters. Not accusing anyone here of doing the race baiting.

Race baiting is dliberatly communicating in such a way to incite anger toward another race. Especially since neither party in this case is even white, I think what you claim is race baiting here is not forum members trying to incite anger against blacks, but is instead expressing indignation for the real race baiters who have successfully incited violence against white people.

Holding hands and singing kumbaya wont fix that.