17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[Blackhawk2001]

Exactly.

There are two basic scenarios that could've happened, with 3 judements. Either it was like Zimmerman said and he was out of his car finding an address and trying to see where Martin went, lost track of him, then got jumped while he was going back to his vehicle. OR, Martin stopped and Zimmerman pursued him, then a confrontation ensued and either Martin or Zimmerman initiated physical force.

If Zimmerman's story is accurate, ALL fault lies with Martin. If Zimmerman caught up to Martin, then initiated force against Martin, likely Zimmerman should go to jail and the fault is ALL on him. If Zimmerman caught up to Martin, then Martin initiated force, then Zimmerman should still walk, but there would be fault on both sides.

However, as far as we know there are zero witnesses or evidence that disproves Zimmerman's story. In absence of all evidence to the contrary, the only real option is to not even charge him.

Perhaps there is another element in this that we haven't considered.

SPECULATION ALERT!!!!
Z., from all accounts, is a fairly liberal/progressive-minded sort. We've also been told that he had initiated telephone contact with the Special Prosecutor without the consent of his lawyers (who have since excused themselves from his case). Z. may have decided he was at fault here and may have given the Special Prosecutor a statement that justifies his arrest and indictment. Such a statement may not have any particular relation to the actual facts of the occurrence, but may be motivated by his guilt at taking a life.

 

[CarmelHP]

Perhaps there is another element in this that we haven't considered.

SPECULATION ALERT!!!!
Z., from all accounts, is a fairly liberal/progressive-minded sort. We've also been told that he had initiated telephone contact with the Special Prosecutor without the consent of his lawyers (who have since excused themselves from his case). Z. may have decided he was at fault here and may have given the Special Prosecutor a statement that justifies his arrest and indictment. Such a statement may not have any particular relation to the actual facts of the occurrence, but may be motivated by his guilt at taking a life.

At this point, i wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Glock19]

Perhaps there is another element in this that we haven't considered.

SPECULATION ALERT!!!!
Z., from all accounts, is a fairly liberal/progressive-minded sort. We've also been told that he had initiated telephone contact with the Special Prosecutor without the consent of his lawyers (who have since excused themselves from his case). Z. may have decided he was at fault here and may have given the Special Prosecutor a statement that justifies his arrest and indictment. Such a statement may not have any particular relation to the actual facts of the occurrence, but may be motivated by his guilt at taking a life.

The prosecutor already stated that the only think said to Zimmerman was that she would not speak with him without his lawyer present. She covered her butt on that one...

 

[hornadylnl]

No, Martin got shot while he was beating the **** out of somebody that was yelling for help. I really can't understand why you're so insistent that Martin was some innocent kid doing absolutely nothing wrong when Zimmerman stalked him and gunned him down because of mere suspicion. Where do you get this idea? I mean, sure, it's possible. But it's not likely. And the speculation could be entirely reversed. You're up in arms and all butthurt over one possible scenario that isn't really supported by much. All these passive-aggressive snarky remarks are just annoying. You aren't making any logical points at all. You're taking ONE possible narrative that you've embraced, for who knows what reason, and basing every comment you make on being injured that other people aren't also butthurt about it as though it were truth.

Like I said, I understand people are jumping to conclusions about Martin, but you're doing the exact same thing, just on the other side. And the Zimmerman supporters who stereotype Martin have more justification, because at least a part of their likely motivation is to destroy this bull**** narrative that the media concocted, that you're worshiping as fact. You don't know Martin. You have no idea if he was a thug or not. You don't know Zimmerman. You don't know if he was a busybody or a saint. Leave at that instead of wholeheartedly jumping on Martin's side. You're being far too emotional about this considering your utter ignorance of the positions you're defending. It's annoying.

What's even more annoying is that these issues have about zero relevence to the case. Martin could be a thug and Zimmerman a saint, and it still might be a bad shoot, and vice versa. We simply don't know enough to definitively say whether or not Zimmerman was justified. However, given what we do know, we can safely say that we can't prove that Zimmerman wasn't. Evidence corroborates his story that justifies the shoot. No evidence contradicts it. We don't know how long Zimmerman followed Martin, or whether or not it was Martin who came back to confront Zimmerman. These things have bearing on culpability for the whole situation, but they aren't known, and unless new evidence arises, won't ever be known for sure, so it's basically a moot point.

As for the profiting part, I suppose it would be more accurate to say they're trying to profit off the death of their son.

Trayvon Martin's family tries to trademark the name of murdered son — RT

I can speculate on my side and it makes me annoying but others can speculate on Zimmerman's side and it's not? Got you loud and clear. Feel free to add me to your ignore list.

 

[hornadylnl]

I agree, dont try and protect your community, get jumped, get your head smashed into the concrete and defend yourself. ... That is Zimmermans story anyway....

What's even better is those cheering Zimmerman on are abandoning him by not putting their money where there mouth is. It is these hypocrits that I'm not risking my livelihood for.

 

[HICKMAN]

Hmm, "feeling guilty" and getting life of gang rape in prison by Trayvon fan's...

no... I think I'd still pleed "not guilty"

I wouldn't be surprised if he's not shopping his story for a payday, to help cover his costs.

 

[hornadylnl]

punching someone in the nose, then climbing on top of them after they are on the ground and contiuing the beating is excessive in any state.... Besides, Zimmerman was just "walking down the sidewalk. It's public property. He has the same right as M does to be there." Am I wrong? Or does that only apply if you're a poor held down black person that ain't never done nuttin' too wrong in life?

If you think somebody is stalking you, would you feel threatened?

 

[Glock19]

What's even better is those cheering Zimmerman on are abandoning him by not putting their money where there mouth is. It is these hypocrits that I'm not risking my livelihood for.

How do you know they havent donated to his site so they can remain anonymous and not get their names published by Spike Lee? Or get attacked by the black panthers?

 

[ATOMonkey]

Hmm, "feeling guilty" and getting life of gang rape in prison by Trayvon fan's...

no... I think I'd still pleed "not guilty"

I wouldn't be surprised if he's not shopping his story for a payday, to help cover his costs.

It's not much of a story. He might be able to sell an interview for $10k or so, but I think that's about it. That will get him about a week of lawyering, give or take.

 

[hornadylnl]

Looks to me like the whole case is going to revolve around who made the first physical contact. If Z., he's probably screwed, nuances of the law nothwithstanding. If it can't be proven that Z. made the first physical contact, I'm not sure he can be convicted for ANYTHING.

Finally we agree on something. Why so many feel those questions don't need to be asked is beyond me.

 

[HICKMAN]

What's even better is those cheering Zimmerman on are abandoning him by not putting their money where there mouth is. It is these hypocrits that I'm not risking my livelihood for.

Justice™ For Trayvon Martin Fund

 

[hornadylnl]

We have learned from this thread that some cower in their basement and some don't. I, for one, appreciate your perspective as it is so foreign to me.

How much have you donated to Zimmerman's legal defense fund? It's easy to say your neighborhood watch guy did what he should have. Not so easy when he's on your trial and your verbal support won't pay his legal bills. I'm not risking my livelihood because my neighbors are nothing more than talk when I get put in the hot seat.

 

[HICKMAN]

If you think somebody is stalking you, would you feel threatened?

yeah, so why not run the last 70 feet home?

 

[ATOMonkey]

yeah, so why not run the last 70 feet home?

Did we ever find out where he lives in relation to where the shooting took place?

 

[hornadylnl]

Exactly.

There are two basic scenarios that could've happened, with 3 judements. Either it was like Zimmerman said and he was out of his car finding an address and trying to see where Martin went, lost track of him, then got jumped while he was going back to his vehicle. OR, Martin stopped and Zimmerman pursued him, then a confrontation ensued and either Martin or Zimmerman initiated physical force.

If Zimmerman's story is accurate, ALL fault lies with Martin. If Zimmerman caught up to Martin, then initiated force against Martin, likely Zimmerman should go to jail and the fault is ALL on him. If Zimmerman caught up to Martin, then Martin initiated force, then Zimmerman should still walk, but there would be fault on both sides.

However, as far as we know there are zero witnesses or evidence that disproves Zimmerman's story. In absence of all evidence to the contrary, the only real option is to not even charge him.

Exactly what I've been saying all along but nobody else seems to allow an ounce of possibility that Zimmerman WAS in the wrong. I don't believe there is enough evidence to convict either based on what has come out so far. I just don't take the shooter's word as gospel in this situation.

 

[HICKMAN]

news last night said he was like 70 feet from his father's girlfriend's house.

At least that is what I think I heard

 

[HICKMAN]

Exactly what I've been saying all along but nobody else seems to allow an ounce of possibility that Zimmerman WAS in the wrong. I don't believe there is enough evidence to convict either based on what has come out so far. I just don't take the shooter's word as gospel in this situation.

I disagree, everyone think's he should have just left well enough alone.

What's the saying "dead men tell no tales"?

or the modern version "dead men can't testify or sue"


What most seem to agree on is that if attacked and head beaten on the sidewalk, then Z was justified.

 

[hornadylnl]

yeah, so why not run the last 70 feet home?

We weren't there so we can't second guess Zimmerman's actions. We weren't there but we can second guess Martin's actions.

I don't know why he didn't run the rest of the way home. I don't know if he felt cornered. I don't know why Zimmerman felt the need to exit his vehicle. "it was self defense" isn't sufficient evidence for me.

 

[HICKMAN]

I don't know why Zimmerman felt the need to exit his vehicle. "it was self defense" isn't sufficient evidence for me.

and still irrelivant to the case.

Even if he asked the kid if he was lost and got into an arguement with Martin, if Martin attacked him, it's still self-defense.

 

[hornadylnl]

I disagree, everyone think's he should have just left well enough alone.

What's the saying "dead men tell no tales"?

or the modern version "dead men can't testify or sue"


What most seem to agree on is that if attacked and head beaten on the sidewalk, then Z was justified.

You put yourself in Zimmerman's situation and you can hold your head up high when you are acquitted. Then you can snuggle up to your wife and kids in a cozy card board box now that your homeless because those that asked you to be their watchmen don't feel the need to back you up.

You have insurance to back your possessions if stolen. You don't have legal insurance to come to my rescue for defending your possessions.