17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[griffin]

But don't you think it's just a teensy bit ironic that Zimmerman made sweeping judgements of Martin

He said he was acting suspicious, and described his suspicious behavior. Not exactly the same thing. He was observing something.

 

[hornadylnl]

Oh, well then I apologize for having the wrong impression. I've read all of your posts and I didn't get that impression at all.

As for me, it appears from the evidence we know about (that the police have leaked) that Zimmerman had a good shoot because Trayvon attacked him first, and then wouldn't let up. I'm okay with Trayvon getting shot in this case. To me, and others here I think, it seemed like you didn't feel that way about Zimmerman. I agree.

I'm giving the same respect to Zimmerman that he gives others.

To me, this scenario is like jumping the fence at the zoo and poking a tiger with a stick and then claiming self defense after I shoot the tiger as he's trying to eat me. I do not believe that this encounter should have or needed to take place by going off of Zimmerman's 911 transcript. Does that mean Zimmerman broke the law? From my understanding, no. Does the fact that he broke no laws relieve him of any responsibility for this encounter? I say no. The impression that I'm getting from those defending Zimmerman is that Martin was just a thug and he got what he had coming to him.

 

[bobzilla]

If what actually happened from Z's account happened, that's not what happenedat all. I thought you were giving everyone the benefit of the doubt until all the facts of the case come out? Doesn't sound like ot to me.

 

[griffin]

Like I jsut stated above, we don't know WHAT Zimmerman saw

Well, we kinda know what he saw. He described it on the 911 call.

And remember, Zimmerman had just stopped a burglary three weeks earlier by being aware and pro-active. The police caught the guys because of him.

 

[hornadylnl]

yES, the 911 transcript doesn't give details of what Z saw. So I can't make an educated decision on whether I'd follow or not. Again, if he's walking up to houses from the back, in the dark and checking doors/looking in windows I sure as hell would follow and call it in.

i'M an "innocent until proven guilty" type person, which is not something people like to hear, and I've not seen enough evidence to prove that he is guilty of a crime.

So is it normal for people to call 911 about suspicious activity and leave the details of said suspicious activities out?

 

[hornadylnl]

It's part of the story. And remember, Eric Holder holds people like this in high regard.

You guys can complain about Holder, Jesse, Al, Obama, New Black Panthers, and anyone else you want. What they may have possibly said in the future had zero bearing on whether Zimmerman's actions were justified or not.

 

[hornadylnl]

Well, we kinda know what he saw. He described it on the 911 call.

And remember, Zimmerman had just stopped a burglary three weeks earlier by being aware and pro-active. The police caught the guys because of him.

Did he attempt to talk to those guys or did he wait on the phone for the cops to show up?

He said Martin was acting like he was on something. That turned out to be untrue. He said he was looking at all the houses. If Martin was up close to a house looking directly in a window, why didn't he say so/

 

[griffin]

You guys can complain about Holder, Jesse, Al, Obama, New Black Panthers, and anyone else you want. What they may have possibly said in the future had zero bearing on whether Zimmerman's actions were justified or not.

They have bearing on what happens now, though. Thus, it's part of the Trayvon-Zimmerman story.

 

[hornadylnl]

If what actually happened from Z's account happened, that's not what happenedat all. I thought you were giving everyone the benefit of the doubt until all the facts of the case come out? Doesn't sound like ot to me.

I have said that if Zimmerman's story proves to be 100% accurate, I still believe the encounter should have never been taken to the level it went. If he would have stayed in his truck, he would have been in a much better position to defend himself. I will never believe that Zimmerman bears no responsibility for what took place.

 

[hornadylnl]

They have bearing on what happens now, though. Thus, it's part of the Trayvon-Zimmerman story.

So somehow Martin is responsible for what douche bags may say and it's his burden to bear? I'm not calling for any charges so the douche bags can be appeased. Whatever came after Martin's last heartbeat bears no relevance to whether Zimmerman is guilty or not.

 

[Shelly1582]

I'm giving the same respect to Zimmerman that he gives others.

To me, this scenario is like jumping the fence at the zoo and poking a tiger with a stick and then claiming self defense after I shoot the tiger as he's trying to eat me. I do not believe that this encounter should have or needed to take place by going off of Zimmerman's 911 transcript. Does that mean Zimmerman broke the law? From my understanding, no. Does the fact that he broke no laws relieve him of any responsibility for this encounter? I say no. The impression that I'm getting from those defending Zimmerman is that Martin was just a thug and he got what he had coming to him.

If he broke no law why should he be arrested? Is that not what the justice system is for? To take in those who break laws? What I'm getting here is that you agree he broke no laws but should still be punished because he pi**ed people off?

 

[sepe]

Saying anything to them at all was sufficient to justify getting your ass beat with impunity according to our resident legal scholars and property rights defenders. If they decided that your "move along" was too insulting were you going to take the beating with a smile figuring you deserved it? From the description of events, you were more aggressive than Zimmerman.

I have taken a beating like a man before without grabbing a weapon. It wouldn't be the first time and it probably won't be the last time. If asking them WTF they were doing on private property from 30 feet (had them lit up with a pretty powerful flashlight) is aggressive, I guess I was more aggressive than Zimmerman. I didn't step foot off the porch and wasn't using an overly aggressive tone. As already mentioned, I've taken beatings quite a few times. I wouldn't say that I'd be smiling while taking the beating because I thought I deserved it but I'm not pulling a weapon on someone that is simply throwing fists. If they have more skill than I do, I take a beating like a man. I've done that in 2 on 1 and 3 on 1 situations before. I've also came out in a bit better condition during a 2 on 1 situation. Once again, you throw fists and that is it...I'm not pulling a knife, club, baseball bat, gun, rocket launcher, or anything else. If I win, I win. If I lose, I lose. It isn't a big deal.

 

[hornadylnl]

If he broke no law why should he be arrested? Is that not what the justice system is for? To take in those who break laws? What I'm getting here is that you agree he broke no laws but should still be punished because he pi**ed people off?

If he broke no laws, I'm not calling for him to be arrested. If the state has no evidence to charge him with, he should not be arrested. Am I not entitled to have an opinion of what I think of Zimmerman? Is my opinion of Zimmerman denying him of his liberty?

 

[hornadylnl]

I have taken a beating like a man before without grabbing a weapon. It wouldn't be the first time and it probably won't be the last time. If asking them WTF they were doing on private property from 30 feet (had them lit up with a pretty powerful flashlight) is aggressive, I guess I was more aggressive than Zimmerman. I didn't step foot off the porch and wasn't using an overly aggressive tone. As already mentioned, I've taken beatings quite a few times. I wouldn't say that I'd be smiling while taking the beating because I thought I deserved it but I'm not pulling a weapon on someone that is simply throwing fists. If they have more skill than I do, I take a beating like a man. I've done that in 2 on 1 and 3 on 1 situations before. I've also came out in a bit better condition during a 2 on 1 situation. Once again, you throw fists and that is it...I'm not pulling a knife, club, baseball bat, gun, rocket launcher, or anything else. If I win, I win. If I lose, I lose. It isn't a big deal.

Were they dribbling your head off the concrete like a basketball?

 

[Shelly1582]

If he broke no laws, I'm not calling for him to be arrested. If the state has no evidence to charge him with, he should not be arrested. Am I not entitled to have an opinion of what I think of Zimmerman? Is my opinion of Zimmerman denying him of his liberty?

I'm not questioning your right to an opinion, I just am trying to understand what that opinion is. You are clearly "anti-Zimmerman", because he got out of his truck and you feel he should have minded his own business. I get that much. What I don't get is how that belief is an argument against those of us who feel that regardless of his stupidity or validity he is being tried and convicted by the media. People are behaving as it he is a cold blooded killer when he has been LEGALLY convicted of nothing at this point. Logic goes out the window when emotions come into play. I'd just like to remind everyone that Trayvon could have been your son, but he wasn't! There are plenty more horrific incidents in the world than this. Let's keep tabs on it and save our anger for when they try to use this situation as a legitimacy for taking away our rights to defend ourselves. I'm afraid it's coming

 

[griffin]

Whatever came after Martin's last heartbeat bears no relevance to whether Zimmerman is guilty or not.

No, but it has relevance to the ongoing story. Will Zimmerman be tried for a hate crime because of political or racial pressure? Will Zimmerman be tried for manslaughter because of political or racial pressure? Are Corey's actions influenced by political or racial pressure?

And of course, all this will gin up ancillary actions (further criminal activity) in Florida and elsewhere.

It's all part of the Trayvon-Zimmerman story.

 

[sepe]

Wow. Really? 7pm was dark. No one is blazing away first, and asking questions later. Z was approached by M, not the other way around as reported by the girlfriend, and confirmed by Z.

People throughout the thread have been acting like this happened at 3am. Most don't even care to know the details that have been released. If 30 minutes after sunset is the same as 3am in your world, give me whatever it is that you're smoking. In my world, 30 minutes after sunset (even on a stormy day) doesn't equal too dark to see. With looking at the assumed paths, Zimmerman was the one that approached Martin...can we be sure of that? No...we don't have all of the evidence. I don't really care what has been confirmed by the girlfriend or Zimmerman. Anything can be confirmed but that doesn't mean it is factual. There was plenty of stress and that can distort facts. Hell, there has been an entire neighborhood in Atlanta that confirmed they'd trapped a leprechaun in a tree...turned out to be a raccoon. Plenty of trailer parks nationwide have had Elvis and UFO sightings (some during the same event). These are confirmed by multiple people...doesn't mean it is factual.

 

[griffin]

If he broke no law why should he be arrested?

 

[griffin]

you throw fists and that is it...I'm not pulling a knife, club, baseball bat, gun, rocket launcher, or anything else. If I win, I win. If I lose, I lose. It isn't a big deal.

Wow.

 

[Slapstick]

I have taken a beating like a man before without grabbing a weapon. It wouldn't be the first time and it probably won't be the last time. If asking them WTF they were doing on private property from 30 feet (had them lit up with a pretty powerful flashlight) is aggressive, I guess I was more aggressive than Zimmerman. I didn't step foot off the porch and wasn't using an overly aggressive tone. As already mentioned, I've taken beatings quite a few times. I wouldn't say that I'd be smiling while taking the beating because I thought I deserved it but I'm not pulling a weapon on someone that is simply throwing fists. If they have more skill than I do, I take a beating like a man. I've done that in 2 on 1 and 3 on 1 situations before. I've also came out in a bit better condition during a 2 on 1 situation. Once again, you throw fists and that is it...I'm not pulling a knife, club, baseball bat, gun, rocket launcher, or anything else. If I win, I win. If I lose, I lose. It isn't a big deal.

That's you, me, I'm too old to fight but I'm not too old to kill someone trying to do me harm by whatever means necessary.