17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[Glock19]

You suspect his attornies are quitting due to lack of payment. I'd say impoverished is just as likely as enriched. But there sure were a bunch of people here condemning Martin's mother for her actions but I have yet to see a report of her selling anything or asking for donations. If that was her intent, she sure is a terrible busines person because her window of opportunity is going to be closing fast. She was already judged for being greedy with no supporting evidence. He IS asking for money. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Martins mother put a trademark on her sons name shortly after his death so she would get paid for people using his name and likeness...

 

[hornadylnl]

I agree.I agree. I bet most here agree. I bet Zimmerman agrees.

None of that changes the fact that Trayvon approached Zimmerman as he was waiting for the police. Trayvon initiated the contact after they were apart. Trayvon was beating Zimmerman's head into the pavement.

These are all facts from the investigation. So, since Zimmerman was acting in SD, why should he be prosecuted?
What has this to do with the legality of what happened?

I'm not saying he should be prosecuted. I'm saying he should not be held on a pedestal for taking out a thug like so many are want to do. I'm a romantic when it comes to being innocent until proven guilty and that people should be left alone. Some don't think a person walking along and minding their own business has the right to be left alone barring committing criminal activity. Those who support stand your ground and self defense laws gain nothing from this case.

As I said in the thread about the 14 year old getting killed for kicking in the door and entering the house, the homewner had every right to defend himself. These 2 cases aren't even remotely similar.

 

[hornadylnl]

"Let me tell you, the things that's about to happen, to these honkeys, these crackers, these pigs, these pink people, these ---- people. It has been long overdue. My prize right now this evening ... is gonna be the bounty, the arrest, dead or alive, for George Zimmerman. You feel me?"

New Black Panther Party chief of staff Michelle Williams apologizes after George Zimmerman radio outburst | wtsp.com

So is there anyone here that is defending that statement or the person who made it? For all the ranting and raving about race being brought into this case, the pro Zimmerman crowd here seem to be the only people who keep talking about race in this thread. You're preaching to the choir about these douche bags.

 

[Fletch]

Martins mother put a trademark on her sons name shortly after his death so she would get paid for people using his name and likeness...

In today's world, that's not necessarily greedy, it simply makes good sense. People will start selling t-shirts about anything if they think it's going to be big enough.

 

[hornadylnl]

Martins mother put a trademark on her sons name shortly after his death so she would get paid for people using his name and likeness...

Is there any evidence that she's collected a nickle? As was suggested, she may have done so to prevent others from profiting from her son's death. If she's seen hawking t shirts, I will most certainly agree that she's greedy.

 

[bobzilla]

You suspect his attornies are quitting due to lack of payment. I'd say impoverished is just as likely as enriched. But there sure were a bunch of people here condemning Martin's mother for her actions but I have yet to see a report of her selling anything or asking for donations. If that was her intent, she sure is a terrible busines person because her window of opportunity is going to be closing fast. She was already judged for being greedy with no supporting evidence. He IS asking for money. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

She also hasn't been forced from her home, forced from her job, forced from school and forced out of her life for fear of an angry mob and a "bounty" on her head, has she? When you're forced from your home, job, school, friends and life, tell me how you are going to support yourself and pay for an attorney?

 

[Bunnykid68]

Is there any evidence that she's collected a nickle? As was suggested, she may have done so to prevent others from profiting from her son's death. If she's seen hawking t shirts, I will most certainly agree that she's greedy.

Agreed.

 

[bobzilla]

I'm not saying he should be prosecuted. I'm saying he should not be held on a pedestal for taking out a thug like so many are want to do. I'm a romantic when it comes to being innocent until proven guilty and that people should be left alone. Some don't think a person walking along and minding their own business has the right to be left alone barring committing criminal activity. Those who support stand your ground and self defense laws gain nothing from this case.

As I said in the thread about the 14 year old getting killed for kicking in the door and entering the house, the homewner had every right to defend himself. These 2 cases aren't even remotely similar.

What's funny... I'm not even "pro-Zimmerman" here, or anywhere for that matter. I think he likely made mistakes. What I am against is people making sweeping judgments about a guy that we don't have all the evidence for. Even more so that people conviently ignore parts of the evidence that HAS been provided to support their case.

Either use all the evidence, or tell it like it is, an unfounded opinion.

 

[hornadylnl]

She also hasn't been forced from her home, forced from her job, forced from school and forced out of her life for fear of an angry mob and a "bounty" on her head, has she? When you're forced from your home, job, school, friends and life, tell me how you are going to support yourself and pay for an attorney?

So are you willing to risk everything you have to follow a suspicious person around? Whether the above is right, wrong, or indifferent, it's the way the world works. I've said I would not get involved like Zimmerman did and that makes me a terrible neighbor, a coward, etc. Your possessions are not worth the above.

 

[hornadylnl]

What's funny... I'm not even "pro-Zimmerman" here, or anywhere for that matter. I think he likely made mistakes. What I am against is people making sweeping judgments about a guy that we don't have all the evidence for. Even more so that people conviently ignore parts of the evidence that HAS been provided to support their case.

Either use all the evidence, or tell it like it is, an unfounded opinion.

You and I agree. But don't you think it's just a teensy bit ironic that Zimmerman made sweeping judgements of Martin with ZERO evidence of a crime? I believe Zimmerman deserves a taste of his own medicine.

 

[bobzilla]

So are you willing to risk everything you have to follow a suspicious person around? Whether the above is right, wrong, or indifferent, it's the way the world works. I've said I would not get involved like Zimmerman did and that makes me a terrible neighbor, a coward, etc. Your possessions are not worth the above.

Honestly, I don't know. I can't answer that. I wasn't there to see what M was doing. Was he looking in people's windows? Or did he look like he was trying to see into peoples homes? Was he acting like he was drunk/high? Who knows. I would like to think I'd make the best informed decision and alert the police and be a good witness in a non-violent act, but I honestly don't know.

Being in that situation, with adrenaline starting to pop up makes it harder to make good, thought out decisions. I am fairly certain I would follow, but not on foot, keeping the relative "safety" of the vehicle around me and the chance to excape a potentially deadly confrontation, especially if I thought he was drunk/high/strung-out/whatever.

 

[Bunnykid68]

So are you willing to risk everything you have to follow a suspicious person around? Whether the above is right, wrong, or indifferent, it's the way the world works. I've said I would not get involved like Zimmerman did and that makes me a terrible neighbor, a coward, etc. Your possessions are not worth the above.

Actually I have and do believe I would again. I did not follow anyone around but I did walk up to the car and knock on the window and ask if I could help them with anything, I guess luckily they were just having sex in front of my neighbors house in their car.

I do not consider you a coward because I think if something was going on in front of your home or your neighbors home you would at least call the police and start a camera, some of us are just willing to walk out and ask WTF is going on.

 

[bobzilla]

You and I agree. But don't you think it's just a teensy bit ironic that Zimmerman made sweeping judgements of Martin with ZERO evidence of a crime? I believe Zimmerman deserves a taste of his own medicine.

Like I jsut stated above, we don't know WHAT Zimmerman saw. Maybe M was peeking in windows, checking doors? We don't know that Z made any sweeping judgements because the info has not been released. Thinking he has is yet another sweeping judgement.

 

[Glock19]

I agree with you Fletch, however if Zimmerman did the same think I think he would be called greedy.
Hornadylnl-How is it that everyone defending Zimmerman's right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty is a SUPPORTER for him? I think if he is guilty then fry his butt. I also think most people who you call Supporters feel the same way. No one ive seen has put him on a pedestal, but we believe he is innocent until proven guilty. There are so many Martin supporters who assume they know the whole story based on much of the media's stories that have already been proven to be inaccurate.

 

[hornadylnl]

Honestly, I don't know. I can't answer that. I wasn't there to see what M was doing. Was he looking in people's windows? Or did he look like he was trying to see into peoples homes? Was he acting like he was drunk/high? Who knows. I would like to think I'd make the best informed decision and alert the police and be a good witness in a non-violent act, but I honestly don't know.

Being in that situation, with adrenaline starting to pop up makes it harder to make good, thought out decisions. I am fairly certain I would follow, but not on foot, keeping the relative "safety" of the vehicle around me and the chance to excape a potentially deadly confrontation, especially if I thought he was drunk/high/strung-out/whatever.

According to the transcript, Martin was looking at all the houses. I supposed if I was walking in a neighborhood, there might be some houses enter my field of view. I suppose if I were on a boat on a lake, I might see water as well. Looking at all the houses doesn't sound like he was standing at windows with his hands cupped to look inside for his next bounty.

Your thoughts seem absolutely reasonable. If Martin came to your vehicle with you still inside and tried to open your door, drag you out, or damage your vehicle, you'd have pretty good probable cause. Far more so than on foot like Zimmerman was. Would it be sufficient probable cause for you to draw your weapon and shoot at him from your locked vehicle if he did not brandish a weapon?

 

[hornadylnl]

I agree with you Fletch, however if Zimmerman did the same think I think he would be called greedy.
Hornadylnl-How is it that everyone defending Zimmerman's right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty is a SUPPORTER for him? I think if he is guilty then fry his butt. I also think most people who you call Supporters feel the same way. No one ive seen has put him on a pedestal, but we believe he is innocent until proven guilty. There are so many Martin supporters who assume they know the whole story based on much of the media's stories that have already been proven to be inaccurate.

Have you not read any of the things said about Martin in this thread? Too bad some of those posts got deleted.

 

[griffin]

I'm not saying he should be prosecuted. I'm saying he should not be held on a pedestal for taking out a thug like so many are want to do.

Oh, well then I apologize for having the wrong impression. I've read all of your posts and I didn't get that impression at all.

As for me, it appears from the evidence we know about (that the police have leaked) that Zimmerman had a good shoot because Trayvon attacked him first, and then wouldn't let up. I'm okay with Trayvon getting shot in this case.

I'm a romantic when it comes to being innocent until proven guilty

To me, and others here I think, it seemed like you didn't feel that way about Zimmerman.

and that people should be left alone.

I agree.

 

[bobzilla]

According to the transcript, Martin was looking at all the houses. I supposed if I was walking in a neighborhood, there might be some houses enter my field of view. I suppose if I were on a boat on a lake, I might see water as well. Looking at all the houses doesn't sound like he was standing at windows with his hands cupped to look inside for his next bounty.

Your thoughts seem absolutely reasonable. If Martin came to your vehicle with you still inside and tried to open your door, drag you out, or damage your vehicle, you'd have pretty good probable cause. Far more so than on foot like Zimmerman was. Would it be sufficient probable cause for you to draw your weapon and shoot at him from your locked vehicle if he did not brandish a weapon?

yES, the 911 transcript doesn't give details of what Z saw. So I can't make an educated decision on whether I'd follow or not. Again, if he's walking up to houses from the back, in the dark and checking doors/looking in windows I sure as hell would follow and call it in.

i'M an "innocent until proven guilty" type person, which is not something people like to hear, and I've not seen enough evidence to prove that he is guilty of a crime.

 

[griffin]

So is there anyone here that is defending that statement or the person who made it?

It's part of the story. And remember, Eric Holder holds people like this in high regard.

 

[griffin]

In today's world, that's not necessarily greedy, it simply makes good sense. People will start selling t-shirts about anything if they think it's going to be big enough.

Maybe she can use the money to contribute to Zimmerman's legal fund.