17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[hornadylnl]

Interesting that only now, after the activists are frustrated that they cannot manufacture charges against this guy, a "witness" emerges after all this time. This case is taking on all the aura of Democrats manufacturing votes on election day when they find out they're 700 short......

All of you posting above who seem to think you know what happened that night.....all you really know is what the liberal media, who desperately needs this case to be sensationalized for their ratings (read $$$), want you to know.

"Confronted and attacked by an unknown stranger while you're walking home...." Take the media rings out of your noses, guys. You don't know squat about what happened. There were only 2 people on Earth who do and only 1 of them is now alive. If you can't evaluate and parse what you are fed by the liberal, sensationalist media, you're better off not listening to them at all.

Not "attacked," per se, but involved in a physical altercation.

The thing that pretty much damns the NWC for me, is the conversation that took place between the kid and his girlfriend.

Don't worry, the girlfriend can't be believed.

 

[hornadylnl]

Agreed, my use of the word "attacked" was incorrect..

If they can prove he was on the phone to his GF about the same time the shooting occurred, thus further backing up her story, it will be VERY damning for the "NWC"

Trayvon Martin Exclusive: Friend on Phone with Teen Before Death Recalls Final Moments - Yahoo!

In the final moments of his life, Trayvon Martin was being hounded by a strange man on a cellphone who ran after him, cornered him and confronted him, according to the teenage girl whose call logs show she was on the phone with the 17-year-old boy in the moments before neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman shot him dead.

 

[CarmelHP]

Not "attacked," per se, but involved in a physical altercation.

The thing that pretty much damns the NWC for me, is the conversation that took place between the kid and his girlfriend.

How? It doesn't point to any illegal conduct by Zimmerman. He may have been being an officious busybody, but that isn't illegal per se, and you can't bust someone in the head just for being that. And if Zimmerman did this with everyone as has been alleged, where does that leave the supposed racial animus motivation much ballyhooed previously? The guy was a dick, that does not automatically translate into murderer or racist.

 

[Mackey]

Even though I am leaning more and more toward the Watch Captain as being out of line, and at fault, i still disagree with your post.

1: Lack of record does not equal lack of criminal activity
2: We don't know his mental state, so saying he didnt just snap is an assumption at best, with no evidence behind it
3: There IS evidence that the Watch Captain was [STRIKE]attacked in some manner[/STRIKE]in a physical altercation, unless one assumes he bloodied himself up
4: We don't know WHY he got out of the vehicle, so you make yet another assumption with no evidence to back it up. It is just as possible he saw the kid peeping in a window and went to investigate, as it is he followed him for no reason.
5: You are making just as many "ignorant"(your word, not mine) assumptions as everyone else, just on the other side of the fence

WTH?
1: The killer has not advised anyone about a crime being committed.
2: Of course, we also have no evidence that you were not hatched from an egg and are a chicken at a keyboard.
3: There is evidence that this creep shot a young man to death (that is, he KILLED him).There's no evidence of an altercation. How do you know that the fool didn't fall on his face as he exited his vehicle??? You don't.

You're trying to act like some cockeyed lawyer.
This is absurd. This is the kind of reasoning that got OJ off.

 

[KG1]

Again I am not condoning anything the NWC did but I have yet to see any evidence that he started the actual physical contact.

Up until that point I don't believe the NWC did anything illegal and even the conversation that Martin had with his girlfriend stated that he was only being followed and He eventually cornered Martin and asked him what he was doing there.

Trayvon Martin Exclusive: Friend on Phone with Teen Before Death Recalls Final Moments - Yahoo!

Eventually he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.
"Trayvon said, 'What, are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn't answer the phone."

It made no mention that the NWC was physically trying to restrain him at that point. I still don't believe anyone knows who started the actual physical contact and what occured relating to the scuffle after someone got pushed up until the shooting took place.

 

[CarmelHP]

WTH?
1: The killer has not advised anyone about a crime being committed.
2: Of course, we also have no evidence that you were not hatched from an egg and are a chicken at a keyboard.
3: There is evidence that this creep shot a young man to death (that is, he KILLED him).There's no evidence of an altercation. How do you know that the fool didn't fall on his face as he exited his vehicle??? You don't.

You're trying to act like some cockeyed lawyer.
This is absurd. This is the kind of reasoning that got OJ off.

So, all those stories reported of people seeing the two struggling on the ground and screams for help are NOT evidence of an altercation but we can assume that Zimmerman acted out of racial malice and attacked the 17 yo based on what again? OK, whatever!

 

[Mackey]

How? It doesn't point to any illegal conduct by Zimmerman. He may have been being an officious busybody, but that isn't illegal per se, and you can't bust someone in the head just for being that. And if Zimmerman did this with everyone as has been alleged, where does that leave the supposed racial animus motivation much ballyhooed previously? The guy was a dick, that does not automatically translate into murderer or racist.

The possible racism here is not necessarily confined to the killer. The way the authorities handled this begs the question. Would there have been an arrest if a black man shot a 17 year old white boy??

 

[dross]

The possible racism here is not necessarily confined to the killer. The way the authorities handled this begs the question. Would there have been an arrest if a black man shot a 17 year old white boy??

If a black neighborhood watch captain shot a white teenager? No, I don't think so.

I think you have a point, you're just taking a few steps farther than the evidence shows.

Right now, the NWC has some explaining to do.

I've posted this before, but it bears posting again. I've been personally involved with a handful of news stories. By personally involved, I mean I knew the facts and could compare them with the story. Not one time did they get the facts right. One story was about a car accident I was in. They not only got it wrong, but they spun it in such a way that they got it even more wrong.

We don't know the whole story here. The best we can say is that based on everything that's been written, it looks like the NWC may be have been a jerk and caused the situation that led to this death. That's it.

It's the worst kind of irresponsibility and one of the reasons we still have such a racial divide to look at the race of the people involved and then invent a storyline that includes racism.

 

[paddling_man]

It's the worst kind of irresponsibility and one of the reasons we still have such a racial divide to look at the race of the people involved and then invent a storyline that includes racism.

Letters in red.

 

[bartonmd]

WTH?
1: The killer has not advised anyone about a crime being committed.
2: Of course, we also have no evidence that you were not hatched from an egg and are a chicken at a keyboard.
3: There is evidence that this creep shot a young man to death (that is, he KILLED him).There's no evidence of an altercation. How do you know that the fool didn't fall on his face as he exited his vehicle??? You don't.

You're trying to act like some cockeyed lawyer.
This is absurd. This is the kind of reasoning that got OJ off.

Um... Did you miss this eyewitness account before the thing turned into a national "white guy executes harmless black child for walking while black"?

A man who witnessed part of the altercation contacted authorities. "The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.
John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.
"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."

Read more: Man shot and killed in neighborhood altercation

 

[Roadie]

WTH?
1: The killer has not advised anyone about a crime being committed.
2: Of course, we also have no evidence that you were not hatched from an egg and are a chicken at a keyboard.
3: There is evidence that this creep shot a young man to death (that is, he KILLED him).There's no evidence of an altercation. How do you know that the fool didn't fall on his face as he exited his vehicle??? You don't.

You're trying to act like some cockeyed lawyer.
This is absurd. This is the kind of reasoning that got OJ off.

Totally missed my point. I said I felt the NWC was in the wrong, then I went on to point out ASSUMPTIONS that you made, and how assumptions are being made on BOTH sides.. Get it?

That being said, yours is the kind of reasoning that gets legitimate self defense shooters sent to jail.

 

[KG1]

The media is really trying hard to push the racial issue here.

Trayvon Martin Killing: 911 Tape Reveals Possible Racial Slur by Neighborhood Watchman - Yahoo!

 

[cobber]

The media is really trying hard to push the racial issue here.

Trayvon Martin Killing: 911 Tape Reveals Possible Racial Slur by Neighborhood Watchman - Yahoo!

They're out of NEWS to report, so they're reverting to the script that all Americans have been conditioned to expect.

But as things dragged along without some official action, this was entirely to be expected.

 

[Expat]

They are doing another episode this morning on the Today Show. They said the shooter used a racial epithet on the 911 call. Apparently it sounds like he said punks. He also said "these people". I think we have an open and shut case right there.

 

[CarmelHP]

They are doing another episode this morning on the Today Show. They said the shooter used a racial epithet on the 911 call. Apparently it sounds like he said punks. He also said "these people". I think we have an open and shut case right there.

Well, if it helps them get a good lynching...

 

[Que]

I am positive that I can locate several threads on INGO that identify a black perpetrator and a white victim. I don't ever recall the objection to race being brought up, but anytime the tables are turned the first question is, "Why does race need to be brought up?"

How much evidence needs to be discovered before the local authorities should take action?! Is there any reason why Zimmerman should not have been arrested, even yesterday, and made to answer questions to determine if charges should be filed against him? If left to local authorities, I would stick to my original assumption that nothing will happen to Zimmerman. If the DOJ moves in, it will certainly be made into an account of "reverse-racism" (whatever that is) by a great deal of people who refuse to objectively examine the facts.

I'm not sure what "side" Zimmerman is on, but if he's supposed to be on the side of lawful-acting gun owners, I need to find a different side. In my mind the guy is a possible criminal who needs to answer to the authorities for what he did.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

How much evidence needs to be discovered before the local authorities should take action?!

Probable cause that Zimmerman committed a crime and enough evidence to disprove self defense.

Remember Florida has a preliminary hearing/motion to dismiss mechanism built into any case where self-defense is invoke. The prosecution has to jump through a hoop in front of a judge and then a jury.

State's Attorneys in Florida have been getting their backsides handed to them after the elimination of the duty to retreat in Florida. I go that think it out of line that the Seminole State's Attorney is taking his time.

Is there any reason why Zimmerman should not have been arrested, even yesterday, and made to answer questions to determine if charges should be filed against him?

Yes, a lack of probable cause. Arrest him, the case gets bounced and even if jeparody does not attach you are going to have problems re-arresting him.

Zimmerman cannot be made to answer questions as there will be someone like me rolling on the ground and frothing at the mouth.

In my mind the guy is a possible criminal who needs to answer to the authorities for what he did.

Maybe, maybe not. Let's see what the grand jury finds out.

 

[KG1]

I am positive that I can locate several threads on INGO that identify a black perpetrator and a white victim. I don't ever recall the objection to race being brought up, but anytime the tables are turned the first question is, "Why does race need to be brought up?"

How much evidence needs to be discovered before the local authorities should take action?! Is there any reason why Zimmerman should not have been arrested, even yesterday, and made to answer questions to determine if charges should be filed against him? If left to local authorities, I would stick to my original assumption that nothing will happen to Zimmerman. If the DOJ moves in, it will certainly be made into an account of "reverse-racism" (whatever that is) by a great deal of people who refuse to objectively examine the facts.

I'm not sure what "side" Zimmerman is on, but if he's supposed to be on the side of lawful-acting gun owners, I need to find a different side. In my mind the guy is a possible criminal who needs to answer to the authorities for what he did.

With all due respect Que some of us are trying to leave out emotion and set aside for now the racial issue to objectively examine the facts.

 

[MACHINEGUN]

I hope he fries for what he did to this kid, Skittles and Tea are dangerous!

 

[Que]

Probable cause that Zimmerman committed a crime and enough evidence to disprove self defense.

Remember Florida has a preliminary hearing/motion to dismiss mechanism built into any case where self-defense is invoke. The prosecution has to jump through a hoop in front of a judge and then a jury.

State's Attorneys in Florida have been getting their backsides handed to them after the elimination of the duty to retreat in Florida. I go that think it out of line that the Seminole State's Attorney is taking his time.



Yes, a lack of probable cause. Arrest him, the case gets bounced and even if jeparody does not attach you are going to have problems re-arresting him.

Zimmerman cannot be made to answer questions as there will be someone like me rolling on the ground and frothing at the mouth.



Maybe, maybe not. Let's see what the grand jury finds out.

Kirk, so you believe there is a lack of probably cause? Based on what has been provided by the media -- and I'm not saying this is actual evidence -- would you consider this shooting lacks the standard of reasonable belief?

The duty to retreat is a huge question. This man appeared to have stalked, tracked, and shot the boy, so can he claim self-defense after he supposedly/possibly instigates an altercation?