Would have drawn my weapon: Pan handler/drunk beggar/?

[Kutnupe14]

Given law enforcements propensity of killing innocent unarmed citizens for offenses ranging from selling single cigarettes to seatbelt violations, I somehow question your expertise on matters regarding self control and escalation of force. I also question your having survived a career in law enforcement for any amount of time if you held yourself to the same rules of engagement as you did the OP. If I were in the same situation I would have been equally concerned. The guy was simulating an act of violence with a weapon less then two minutes prior to approaching him. If that isn't a reason to elevate your awareness and assert yourself, I don't know what is.

I wuz like, sarcasm, then I was like, "huh?"

 

[Hoosier Cowboy]

From what the OP posted I see nothing wrong with being "prepared" for the incident to turn into a possibly deadly situation. Possiable suspect was intoxicated or mentally challenged with a visible weapon. OP kept his alertness up and was thinking ahead if it hit the fan. Only negative I might say is that if the neighborhood is that bad start out by going somewhere else.

 

[GunSlinger]

Well, your call but neither works out well for me.

You DO know you're just a big azz BULLY right!?!?!

 

[churchmouse]

You DO know you're just a big azz BULLY right!?!?!

Yeah, my A$$ does look big in these pants.....

 

[Rocketscientist]

I see nothing wrong in the OP. I probably would have went to a different liquor store after seeing the guy stab the building, but that's just me. Saying he overreacted by touching his firearm is overreacting IMO.

Exactly! If two whack-jobs trying to stab a building isn't enough of a red flag, I don't know what is. That would have been my cue to leave. A 6 pack isn't worth putting myself in that situation. I'm glad the OP was able to leave unscathed, but this could have turned out very differently. I've said it before, sayin it again. Risk Management! Not saying anyone did right or wrong here, just saying what I would have done.

I know there's some people who get animated about all the Monday morning quarterbacking that goes on here, but it's good to talk about it! We all learn from it, and we can have an idea of what to do/not to do before it happens to us. To me, the OP's situation is a teachable moment we can all learn from.

 

[wolfts01]

Thank goodness for the PSS. I was 50% reading your story and 50% actively trying not to think about all of the grammar/English mistakes.

As for the situation, I would have similarly treated the drunk as a threat, especially if he kept approaching after telling him no. Even without a weapon a normal/large drunk man poses a danger to me if he gets too close.

 

[AA&E]

But yet there was nothing threating done by eather man to the OP..
Where is your escalation of force ?????? Its in your mind... that's where it is...
And I am shocked that you did not know that is normal for all policeman and LEO to ride call to call holding there sidearm.

Not the sharpest knife in the drawer. The escalation of force I referred to was on behalf of the OP. I'm sure you were instructed in the academy to wait until someone escalated force upon you before reacting, right?



Where did he say he drew his weapon? He placed his hand on it, never drew it.

You have the uncanny ability of deciphering the intent of people in situations where you weren't even present. Astounding...

 

[AA&E]

I wuz like, sarcasm, then I was like, "huh?"

I can provide links to threads where these events were discussed if you question the validity of the statements... both even have video.

 

[AA&E]

Exactly! If two whack-jobs trying to stab a building isn't enough of a red flag, I don't know what is. That would have been my cue to leave. A 6 pack isn't worth putting myself in that situation. I'm glad the OP was able to leave unscathed, but this could have turned out very differently. I've said it before, sayin it again. Risk Management! Not saying anyone did right or wrong here, just saying what I would have done.

I know there's some people who get animated about all the Monday morning quarterbacking that goes on here, but it's good to talk about it! We all learn from it, and we can have an idea of what to do/not to do before it happens to us. To me, the OP's situation is a teachable moment we can all learn from.

By the time he saw the guy acting in such a manner he was already outside and approaching the door, wasn't he?

 

[chezuki]

He was nothing more than a bum seeking money for a beer....
I guess you missed the part " I did not see a weapon in his hand."
There was no threat, the man was walking towards him bumming money.... huge over reaction...and then a embellished drunk post.

delusional
[dih-loo-zhuh-nl]


adjective
1.
having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions:
Senators who think they will get agreement on a comprehensive tax bill are delusional.
2.
Psychiatry. maintaining fixed false beliefs even when confronted with facts, usually as a result of mental illness:
He was so delusional and paranoid that he thought everybody was conspiring against him.

 

[Roland of Gilead]

OP, I don't think you did anything wrong. Putting your hand on your holstered weapon is not a crime despite what some want you to believe.

Good Situational Awareness. Good use of your car to get out of harm's way.

Question: what would you have done if the guy had started banging on your car or attempting to break in through the window? Was it dark outside? would have been better to stay inside the store and let the employee know that there is a man outside with a weapon loitering around the front? what about when you first saw the guy and thought you saw a weapon... You could have turned around going back in your car and went to the next liquor store down the street I assume but why didn't you?

Didn't consider going back into the store because they ignored me on the way in. Was hoping to be ignored on the way out.

My main concern was not getting my door closed if he got on me fast. Once I was in my vehicle I felt like I had a thin layer of protection. If he started banging on the window I would of drove away. I would not necessarily be able to get away fast because I would of been backing up onto Kentucky Ave. I would of drawn and got away as soon as traffic would let me. It was at night but the store was very well let up.

If he would of busted through the window with the weapon, I would of very likely been forced to shoot.

 

[churchmouse]

Didn't consider going back into the store because they ignored me on the way in. Was hoping to be ignored on the way out.

My main concern was not getting my door closed if he got on me fast. Once I was in my vehicle I felt like I had a thin layer of protection. If he started banging on the window I would of drove away. I would not necessarily be able to get away fast because I would of been backing up onto Kentucky Ave. I would of drawn and got away as soon as traffic would let me. It was at night but the store was very well let up.

If he would of busted through the window with the weapon, I would of very likely forced to shoot.

Hell man.....I thought you were in a rough area. I thought you might have been uptown where it is seriously rough.......

I kid....I kid

 

[Mark 1911]

1. Don't blame you for your reaction.
2. I would find a different place to buy beer.

 

[Roland of Gilead]

There was a woman shot in the chest with in a few hundred meters of the store early Sunday morning. Mars Hill is not that bad but it is a lot different place than were I grew up.

STOP might of been better than NO Bro. I was trying to keep it casual and get the **** out.

 

[Cameramonkey]

OP, which store was it? I have been known to frequent those too as they are sometimes on my way home. Might just consider going out of my way a couple blocks and hit the the ones high school and south.

 

[17 squirrel]

delusional
[dih-loo-zhuh-nl]


adjective
1.
having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions:
Senators who think they will get agreement on a comprehensive tax bill are delusional.
2.
Psychiatry. maintaining fixed false beliefs even when confronted with facts, usually as a result of mental illness:
He was so delusional and paranoid that he thought everybody was conspiring against him.

More like the OP and a few posters here have Delusional Paranoia.

A paranoid delusion is the fixed, false belief that one is being harmed or persecuted by a particular person or group of people. Paranoid delusions are known technically as a “persecutory delusion.”

It involves the person’s belief that he or she is being conspired against, cheated, spied on, followed, poisoned or drugged, maliciously maligned, harassed, or obstructed in the pursuit of long-term goals.

Small slights may be exaggerated and become the focus of a delusional system with a person suffers from a paranoid delusion.

 

[Roland of Gilead]

Mars Hill liquor. Just north of the 21st amendment store.

 

[printcraft]

More like the OP and a few posters here have Delusional Paranoia.

A paranoid delusion is the fixed, false belief that one is being harmed or persecuted by a particular person or group of people. Paranoid delusions are known technically as a “persecutory delusion.”

It involves the person’s belief that he or she is being conspired against, cheated, spied on, followed, poisoned or drugged, maliciously maligned, harassed, or obstructed in the pursuit of long-term goals.

Small slights may be exaggerated and become the focus of a delusional system with a person suffers from a paranoid delusion.

Do you carry a gun?

 

[rhino]

I've walked more than a couple of blocks with my hand on the grip when I felt I might need it. I distinctly remember an evening when I was walking through that alley between Crackers in Broad Ripple and the parking lot where I parked with my hand in a firing grip then entire way. I probably shouldn't have been there.

 

[churchmouse]

Mars Hill liquor. Just north of the 21st amendment store.

I thought that was the one.
The Hill has changed. My hood has changed. Section 8 has drug (pun intended) down many areas around the city.