Woman With Pot of Boiling Water Shot Dead by Police

[BehindBlueI's]

If her husband/boyfriend/ neighbor shot her in the exact circumstances? What would be your thoughts? That should be the measure of reasonable actions the police can take as well. I think we all know the answer here, or considering it’s Ingo maybe not.

Maybe it "should be" but it isn't how it is. In a very high level overview, one element of criminal activity is mindset, which is why not guilty by reason of insanity and small children having no criminal culpability is a thing. You did something that was criminal, but did not have the intention to, or knowledge of, the act you were taking. (This doesn't always apply, voluntary intoxication isn't a defense since you purposefully lowered your own inhibitions/cognitive function)

Because of that, an officer's training and experience becomes relevant for both prosecution and defense (as can anyone's). It goes to establishing mindset. If I disregarded my training, why? Similarly, acting within training is a defense. I did X because I recognized Y as a deadly threat due to previous experience with the same behaviors or training to recognize pre-attack indicators, reactionary gaps, and action vs reaction timing. The sword cuts both ways, in other words.

This doesn't just apply to officers, and is why Massad Ayoob recommends keeping a copy of notes from training, books you've read, etc in a way that proves when you learned the thing you're using to justify your actions.

TLDR: IF he is outside his training, he's likely to be found more culpable than Average Joe in the same circumstances.

 

[Ark]

Slowed way down it sure looks like she jumps back up and tries to throw the pot. Steaming water is visible on the floor to the right. But I cannot for the life of me make out what the hell she said that flipped the switch, or why she would do such a thing.

Dude's toast. It's Illinois, they hang white cops just on principle. He dug his grave speaking like that, no jury in Illinois with give a crap what the facts are or what she did. His roid rage mouth sealed his fate.

What a very baffling situation. I get it, I will freaking shoot someone before I get boiling water dumped on me, too, but dude did have a whole counter and a bunch of junk between him and her. Let her try to come around it with the pot before you aimbot her in the freaking head, maybe.

Just don't get it. What the heck did she say?

 

[foszoe]

Slowed way down it sure looks like she jumps back up and tries to throw the pot. Steaming water is visible on the floor to the right. But I cannot for the life of me make out what the hell she said that flipped the switch, or why she would do such a thing.

Dude's toast. It's Illinois, they hang white cops just on principle. He dug his grave speaking like that, no jury in Illinois with give a crap what the facts are or what she did. His roid rage mouth sealed his fate.

What a very baffling situation. I get it, I will freaking shoot someone before I get boiling water dumped on me, too, but dude did have a whole counter and a bunch of junk between him and her. Let her try to come around it with the pot before you aimbot her in the freaking head, maybe.

Just don't get it. What the heck did she say?

One place said she said "I'm sorry"

 

[daddyusmaximus]

Here's my take. (understand I'm just a Monday morning QB on the internet)

Yeah, there was a threat... boiling hot water hurts like hell, but there was also a counter between them, and throwing a pot of water is a VERY limited range attack that isn't even gonna happen all that quickly. It is easy to avoid or retreat from. This was not the time to escalate up the use of force continuum... all the way to deadly force in a flat second.

This will not end well for the former officer.

In fact, this may not end well for the nation... it being in the middle of the summer riot season, and an election year to boot.

Ladies and gentlemen... I present to you the next George Floyd.
Summer of love 2.0 coming right up.

 

[Route 45]

In fact, this may not end well for the nation... it being in the middle of the summer riot season, and an election year to boot.

Ladies and gentlemen... I present to you the next George Floyd.
Summer of love 2.0 coming right up.

That's what I'm thinking. Hope not. We'll see.

 

[ditcherman]

Different guy. He was scared, bro.

On the package, that’s in purple, you just can’t see it.

 

[downforce137]

sure seems like she insinuated throwing boiling water on the cops and they didnt like that, she didnt comply and got shot..

why is this so difficult?

cop tells you to do something with a gun out.. just do it or suffer the consequences...

 

[Gunmetalgray]

Wow. What a short fuse. Only way he'll ever get out of prison is when they have to bury him after they find him dead in his cell.

 

[Tombs]

If someone has that short of a fuse, why doesn't a partner tell them to take a break in the other room or something instead of roll with such insanity?

Killing over pride being hurt is a new low. The boiling water even being relevant seems comical, you can't just draw down on someone because they said something. And someone doesn't lose their God given right of self defense just because you have a badge. All they had to do was walk away, but they drew a gun and committed murder.

Now if they were there because she had done something to someone or was threatening someone, that would be different, but they were called for a break in concern.

Also some folks snap shot the officer's tattoos and he has satanic sigils, so that probably explains her comment. Confirmed it myself

 

[Nazgul]

If someone has that short of a fuse, why doesn't a partner tell them to take a break in the other room or something instead of roll with such insanity?

Killing over pride being hurt is a new low. The boiling water even being relevant seems comical, you can't just draw down on someone because they said something. And someone doesn't lose their God given right of self defense just because you have a badge. All they had to do was walk away, but they drew a gun and committed murder.

Now if they were there because she had done something to someone or was threatening someone, that would be different, but they were called for a break in concern.

Also some folks snap shot the officer's tattoos and he has satanic sigils, so that probably explains her comment. Confirmed it myself

This is th Nordic "Vegvisir", it means compass or way finder. The runes around it vary, such as "all who wander are not lost". In history it meant an appeal to their gods for guidance.

My ancestors are Swedish so I have a mild interest in this. I know the use of the old runes has been taken up by the nazi's in WW2 and skinheads now but it was a viable alphabet for a long time.

In this case who knows what he means by the tat. It may just be a cool looking tattoo.

Don

 

[Expat]

Yeah, I dunno. Makes me think avoiding police interaction where possible is the best policy.

 

[Gunmetalgray]

Seems like rolling the dice calling for help these days, might get this guy showing up, no thanks. A shame for the good ones out there, doesn't make their job easier. Her family likely will be compensated, rightfully so, but that doesn't bring anyone back.

 

[Gunmetalgray]

If someone has that short of a fuse, why doesn't a partner tell them to take a break in the other room or something instead of roll with such insanity?

Yea, I can see the partner being implicated by the attorney & jury for not de-escalating, or for not doing 'something' to 'help' her. Taking 2 steps back could have mitigated risk of injury from boiling water being thrown.

 

[ghuns]

...In fact, this may not end well for the nation... it being in the middle of the summer riot season...

Checking the weather forecast, nighttime lows in the mid-sixties to low seventies.

Yikes. That is prime 'fiery, but mostly peaceful protest' weather.

 

[Brad69]

I am not a LEO but I watch on patrol.

Why do cops have beards and almost all of them have full sleeves even the woman cops ?

It would seem if you have skulls on your arm that wouldn’t look good in court ?

I don’t care if you get a Pen!§ tattooed on your forehead it’s a free country. But I won’t hang out with you anymore.

 

[Route 45]

Why do cops have beards and almost all of them have full sleeves even the woman cops ?

I blame the democrats for woman cops with beards and tattoos.

 

[KLB]

Oh my God. Could you understand what she said that caused the cops to go from laughing to drawing on her in a second?

From the Guardian article

After an initial discussion and request for Massey’s driver’s license, Grayson spotted a pot of boiling water on the stove and ordered Massey to remove it to avoid starting a fire. In doing so, Massey asks the officers – who visibly distance themselves from her as she goes to handle the pot – why they moved away from her.

“Where you going?” she asks them.

“Away from your hot steaming water,” Grayson answers, with a laugh, before Massey responds: “Away from the hot steaming water? Oh, I’ll rebuke you in the name of Jesus.”

With his gun drawn, Grayson closed the distance between himself and Massey, who was beginning to kneel behind a counter with her hands up.

Sonya Massey’s home, the scene of her fatal shooting, in Springfield. Photograph: John O’Connor/AP
“You better ****ing not, I swear to God I’ll ****ing shoot you right in your ****ing face,” Grayson warned.

Massey can be heard saying, “I’m sorry,” as Grayson continues to advance. “I’m sorry,” she says again as Grayson fires three shots, striking her with a bullet below the eye that exited from the back of her neck.

 

[Creedmoor]

If someone has that short of a fuse, why doesn't a partner tell them to take a break in the other room or something instead of roll with such insanity?

Killing over pride being hurt is a new low. The boiling water even being relevant seems comical, you can't just draw down on someone because they said something. And someone doesn't lose their God given right of self defense just because you have a badge. All they had to do was walk away, but they drew a gun and committed murder.

Now if they were there because she had done something to someone or was threatening someone, that would be different, but they were called for a break in concern.

Also some folks snap shot the officer's tattoos and he has satanic sigils, so that probably explains her comment. Confirmed it myself

Seems so easy just to back up and deescalate whatever was going on in that apartment. Seems shes gonna drain some pasta and hes screaming, Im gonna shot you in the F'ing face.
I'm gonna bet that officer has used his aggressive hammer also with the other departments that have employed him in the past 4 years.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

I was going to give my opinion, but thought better of it. Nothing good ever comes from expressing my views and beliefs. 50 people will agree, 50 others will disagree. The ones that disagree will be certain to degrade me and inform me of a million reasons why my opinion is incorrect, and the judge trying the case will, for some reason, not use my post as evidence or testimony to consider in their ruling. So, instead, I am writing a long-winded message, wasting everyones time it took to read it, while also saving them the time from reading someone elses (probably wrong) opinion. I feel like seinfeld, a post about "nothing".

 

[Ziggidy]

Sixth department in just under four years....wow.
Guessing his sixth may well be his last.

DEI position