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WIBC Gun Talk Thread
- Thread starter Principal Skinr
- Start date
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I Agree, to a point. But when someone who is supposed to be helping the group is actually HINDERING it, you gotta call them out! I for one will not work hard at something only to look back and see one of my team undoing my hard work. How would you feel if you were dutifully digging a ditch, only to look behind you and find your buddy digging his own ditch and without noticing through his obliviousness, throwing his dirt into your hole? Would you call him out? Or simply say "we are all on the same team, oh well!" and continue to dig your ditch that is filling up behind you?
Kinda like this:
Not to be confused with Paul Harvey (great voice), Mr. Haney (played by Pat Buttram) was a character on the TV series Green Acres.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYLeHZuOuOQ
Please provide 2A examples correlating to this ditch analogy (and I'm not talking about silly corporate no-no signs posted to appease the Mommies and corporate shareholders). I want to know how and where our collective 2A rights were infringed because someone carried a rifle in public.
Minority civil rights were won using civil disobedience to call attention to their cause. LBGT activists have used shocking tactics at parades and demonstrations (and in public displays of affection many find repulsive) but their civil rights have expanded, not diminished. Everyone railed against Open Carry Texas' demonstrations but they worked in similar fashion.
I'm all for keeping one's hands off any gun (short or long) in public. And I have yet to see any tangible evidence of anyone undoing the progress we've made because they carried a rifle in public.
And I sure as hell don't want to hear anyone complain about how easy it is for Moms Demand Action to get press coverage. Anybody who doesn't think we can do the same thing and be effective needs to join me sometime. I guarantee you a dozen of us go out our own little demonstration and we can get coverage and make it positive, especially in this election cycle.
Thread de-rail
My point is NOT specifically to actual laws passed, but the difference between OCing a handgun and OCing a rifle, and the downstream effect on the masses of sheeple who are not part of our group, specifically in regards to their views and opinions of 2A rights and how it helps us moving forward. I (and Guy) am speaking as This relates specifically to the popular opinions of the masses and not specific quantifiable laws. It is important to note that if you cannot maintain the popular opinion on a belief, it will cascade into legislative results that are NOT in your favor.
OCing a handgun, SOME get their panties in a wad. No biggie. I've had my fair share of reactions, but the vast majority barely knew I existed let alone I was armed.
OC a rifle, ESPECIALLY in a tactical sling at low ready like these two bozos, and EVERYONE loses their fashizzle. (including some here)
SIGHTS LIKE THIS DO NOT MAKE FOR GOOD PR FOR OUR SIDE! PERIOD! If those on the fence see guys like this "OCing", their response is likely to be "Oh, dear! I dont like that. Maybe the anti carry folks are onto something if this is what EDCing guns and 'gun rights' are all about." When in reality You and I just want to carry our pistols (That this same person never noticed) anywhere, anytime.
Bottom line, you NEVER EVER use the extremes to lobby for your position. That only alienates and polarizes. You put a "reasonable" midpoint example forward for everyone to nod and agree with. You say “Honey, I want to go out with the guys Friday night. It’s Bill’s birthday and we are going for some ‘guy time’. Is that OK?” You DON’T say “Hey babe, It’s Bill’s birthday and he wants to party. We are going to hit the strip clubs and drink Lots of beer until we are so drunk we have to take a taxi home. You’re OK with that, right? " In the former, you get what you want and have some fun because they agreed to a general principle. Had she thought ahead and anticipated your want, she may not have agreed to it. If you had proposed the latter, You'd be in the doghouse and not allowed to go.
Ultimately we are on the same page. We all want the right. We just have to be aware of how our actions affect the views of the rest of the population.
OCing a handgun, SOME get their panties in a wad. No biggie. I've had my fair share of reactions, but the vast majority barely knew I existed let alone I was armed.
OC a rifle, ESPECIALLY in a tactical sling at low ready like these two bozos, and EVERYONE loses their fashizzle. (including some here)
SIGHTS LIKE THIS DO NOT MAKE FOR GOOD PR FOR OUR SIDE! PERIOD! If those on the fence see guys like this "OCing", their response is likely to be "Oh, dear! I dont like that. Maybe the anti carry folks are onto something if this is what EDCing guns and 'gun rights' are all about." When in reality You and I just want to carry our pistols (That this same person never noticed) anywhere, anytime.
Bottom line, you NEVER EVER use the extremes to lobby for your position. That only alienates and polarizes. You put a "reasonable" midpoint example forward for everyone to nod and agree with. You say “Honey, I want to go out with the guys Friday night. It’s Bill’s birthday and we are going for some ‘guy time’. Is that OK?” You DON’T say “Hey babe, It’s Bill’s birthday and he wants to party. We are going to hit the strip clubs and drink Lots of beer until we are so drunk we have to take a taxi home. You’re OK with that, right? " In the former, you get what you want and have some fun because they agreed to a general principle. Had she thought ahead and anticipated your want, she may not have agreed to it. If you had proposed the latter, You'd be in the doghouse and not allowed to go.
Ultimately we are on the same page. We all want the right. We just have to be aware of how our actions affect the views of the rest of the population.
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This I can agree with. I'd be glad to move this elsewhere. I enjoy lively debate as long as it stays civil.
agreed.
GuyRelford
Master
No one has ever heard me criticize the OC of handguns. Ever. My problem is with OC of long guns on a tac sling - with hands on the gun. That is very specific, and if you listened to my show - that is exactly what you heard.
Guy
Kirk Freeman
Grandmaster
I've open carried a bunch and quasi-concealed at Iggle Crik range. No one from TFT has said anything, other than no drawing from the holster (so I don't).
I think we must agree that there is a distinction between carrying a gun and carrying a gun at people.
GuyRelford
Master
Here you go. Knucklehead open carries loaded AR into Atlanta airport - Georgia congressman immediately introduces bill to make airports "gun free zones" (when they weren't before). Now pro-2A advocates (like me) have to pull resources away from more important issues and go fight over whether it should be illegal to have a gun in the public areas of an airport - all because if this idiot. Please tell me how that is helpful to our cause.
Guy
https://pjmedia.com/blog/after-man-...rport-a-bill-to-make-airports-gun-free-zones/
GuyRelford
Master
Has this resulted in new legislation there or anywhere else? I'm not advocating stunts like this. I wouldn't carry my Tavor into the KIND terminal. When it comes to siding with the open carrier or that Georgia Democrat I'm sure as hell siding with the AR-15 carrier. Were his actions imprudent? Yes. Was he doing anything illegal? No. His actions may not be helpful to our cause but I still have yet to see where stunts like this have had a negative effect on our 2A rights. Rather, our 2A rights appear to be expanding nationally.
As I wrote up thread, resulting in legislation being passed which further limits our 2A rights.
I just heard a news story where somebody left a revolver out and a six year old shot and killed his father with it. Sometimes I think we spend more time railing on each other over who's carrying a rifle in public then railing on stuff like this. Now you all tell me which is more hazardous to our gun rights.
Let me get this right... So you dont give a flying F*** if you (or idiots referenced above) only alienate neutrals/antis and cause more work for us to counter by shifting popular opinion against lawful carry/guns in public? If so, you are special kind of special.
By your logic, Its no big deal if I dont drop the transmission on the road by doing stupid stuff with the shifter in your car. (chirping the tires by dropping it to 1 and popping the clutch on the highway, etc) I may not cause an immediate failure, but it is still hurting it in the long run.
I'd call a long gun OCer's actions triggering anti-carry bills/rules to be introduced "Negative effect". If you dont, I dont know what to say. And frankly, I'm not afraid to say I have lost respect for you in light of this opinion. (not that it really matters what I think
)Too much coffee today? Take a deep breath and a 
. I've inserted my comments below.
Summary: We're not as far apart on this as your emotional reaction suggests. Peace out and let's leave the kicking and screaming to the antis.
Oh, and we should take this to Carry Issues and Self Defense.
. I've inserted my comments below.Let me get this right... So you dont give a flying F*** if you (or idiots referenced above) only alienate neutrals/antis and cause more work for us to counter by shifting popular opinion against lawful carry/guns in public? If so, you are special kind of special. I never said "I don't give a flying ****"... I won't let lawfully exercising my rights take a backseat to winning hearts and minds but I've done my share of the latter getting new folks to the range, Appleseeds, and Revere's Riders events so I do take offense with you equating me with the "idiots" you speak of.
By your logic, Its no big deal if I dont drop the transmission on the road by doing stupid stuff with the shifter in your car. (chirping the tires by dropping it to 1 and popping the clutch on the highway, etc) I may not cause an immediate failure, but it is still hurting it in the long run. I fail to see how this analogy is remotely applicable to 2A rights. Sorry.
I'd call a long gun OCer's actions triggering anti-carry bills/rules to be introduced "Negative effect". If you dont, I dont know what to say. And frankly, I'm not afraid to say I have lost respect for you in light of this opinion. (not that it really matters what I think
Summary: We're not as far apart on this as your emotional reaction suggests. Peace out and let's leave the kicking and screaming to the antis.
Oh, and we should take this to Carry Issues and Self Defense.
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