WHYYYYY are you giving in to these .22lr gougers!?

[rhino]

I would speculate that at least a few of those outraged by others selling ammo at inflated prices are angry primarily because they failed to prepare for such situations. And at least a few of them would be selling ammo at inflated prices without a second thought if they had purchased a healthy surplus prior to what we have today.

 

[Tydeeh22]

I like the guy selling 100 rd sleeves of cci for double cost. :shrug:

Im not buying. Meh.

 

[SpaldingPM]

Since you didn't answer my other questions, let me try this one: What should the allowable mark up be? Your answer will very likely prompt more questions. If someone has something that someone else wants, what should the correct markup (allowable profit) be?

Every answer to every question you have asked has been addressed in the OP. Re-read it. I have answered those ?'s without answering them specifically, but in similar context.

 

[sb0]

The supply and demand of said product in the current market today is still influenced by the primary consumer themselves, but not in a way it was before. Now there middle men to the middle men. These middle men are price gougers. They do everything they can to get the product before anyone else and then resell it to the person who needed it in the first place.
it goes like this... production, distribution, market (store), distribution, then buyer.... hmmm.... somthing seems off doesnt it?

Those middle men are providing a service, which the consumer, by your admission, is happily consuming.

Were it not for those middle men, you'd have to rely on dumb luck to find anything. In a free market, scarce goods are funneled to those in need as determined by what they are willing to pay.

Do you really think that if it weren't for gougers, Walmart would be stocked up with bricks of 22lr at pre panic prices?

There is not enough supply to keep up with demand. That is a fact. Stores like Walmart that cap their prices solely in order to placate people like you are doing more than anyone to create the situation you are complaining about right now.

Ignore the laws of the market, as large chains do, and this is what happens. Prices will correct themselves, creating new middlemen in the process if necessary.

 

[SpaldingPM]

Those middle men are providing a service, which the consumer, by your admission, is happily consuming.

Were it not for those middle men, you'd have to rely on dumb luck to find anything. In a free market, scarce goods are funneled to those in need as determined by what they are willing to pay.

Do you really think that if it weren't for gougers, Walmart would be stocked up with bricks of 22lr at pre panic prices?

There is not enough supply to keep up with demand. That is a fact. Stores like Walmart that cap their prices solely in order to placate people like you are doing more than anyone to create the situation you are complaining about right now.

Ignore the laws of the market, as large chains do, and this is what happens. Prices will correct themselves, creating new middlemen in the process if necessary.

Understandable, See you'll get a much better response out of someone when hostility isn't perceived.
I do have a preponderance however, can you think of anything other than ammo where this would be acceptable? People would flip S**T if people were doing it with gas. Same with food, cars, etc... Ammo is the only market where some people find acceptance with this type of economic structure. Serious question though!

I just don't find it right. We don't NEED ammo, but to the avid shooter and hardcore gun enthusiast, we do NEED them to fuel our passion.

 

[Booya]

it goes like this... production, distribution, market (store), distribution, then buyer.... hmmm.... somthing seems off doesnt it?

It would only seem off if this was the ONLY way to get it, but it's not. That's just an example of ONE way to get it. No one is forced to get it that way.

Every answer to every question you have asked has been addressed in the OP. Re-read it. I have answered those ?'s without answering them specifically, but in similar context.

I read the OP several times and it didn't answer any of my questions... at all. You, likely, already participate willingly in the exact thing you're complaining about. What's the difference here? Why is ammo an different then any other market? Fuel? Stocks/bonds? Health Ins?

I'll ask the other question again? What do you think would be an allowable markup should be? At what point does it become gouging? I'm totally serious, I'd love to hear.

**edit** I hope you're not perceiving hostility from me, I mean to infer none. However, I read A LOT of hostility in the OP. I'm just trying to find the logic in what I perceive as an emotional rant.

 

[The Keymaster]

I like to shoot my 22's. I have 4 of them. If I have to pay a little more for that pleasure then so be it. People like to drive to vacation spots during the summer, and are willing to pay over $4.00 per gallon to do it.

I don't consider those selling 22LR gougers, and I told the guy that sold me 10 bricks last weekend exactly that. They have it, I want it, and I will pay for it.

If you think this shortage is going to go away any time soon, you are living in a fantasy world. Read the Winchester 22LR thread for insight. I have boxes of 9mm that I bought at $7.00 per box 5 years ago. I believe the current retail is about $15.00. Would I be a gouger if I doubled my money?

 

[gregkl]

I like to shoot my 22's. I have 4 of them. If I have to pay a little more for that pleasure then so be it. People like to drive to vacation spots during the summer, and are willing to pay over $4.00 per gallon to do it.

I don't consider those selling 22LR gougers, and I told the guy that sold me 10 bricks last weekend exactly that. They have it, I want it, and I will pay for it.

If you think this shortage is going to go away any time soon, you are living in a fantasy world. Read the Winchester 22LR thread for insight. I have boxes of 9mm that I bought at $7.00 per box 5 years ago. I believe the current retail is about $15.00. Would I be a gouger if I doubled my money?

Nope. At $14/box, you would be selling under the market and would still have a nice profit margin.

 

[SpaldingPM]

It would only seem off if this was the ONLY way to get it, but it's not. That's just an example of ONE way to get it. No one is forced to get it that way.



I read the OP several times and it didn't answer any of my questions... at all. You, likely, already participate willingly in the exact thing you're complaining about. What's the difference here? Why is ammo an different then any other market? Fuel? Stocks/bonds? Health Ins?

I'll ask the other question again? What do you think would be an allowable markup should be? At what point does it become gouging? I'm totally serious, I'd love to hear.

An allowable markup is anything the supplier wants to make it, like i said, free market isn't wrong, however on the other end, gouging is anything done to markup the price to make a profit on the current market retail. I'd be happy and willing to pay $30 for a $25 value pack, that is still gouging, but not enough to really make the economics of the transaction valuable to the seller. Where I believe it becomes wrong is when you see an extra free market 150%+ markup on a product that has already had a 20% market (store) distribution markup. The problem that I perceive is when they are doing it to make an actual worthwhile profit to buy more and continue the trade.

 

[SpaldingPM]

I like to shoot my 22's. I have 4 of them. If I have to pay a little more for that pleasure then so be it. People like to drive to vacation spots during the summer, and are willing to pay over $4.00 per gallon to do it.

I don't consider those selling 22LR gougers, and I told the guy that sold me 10 bricks last weekend exactly that. They have it, I want it, and I will pay for it.

If you think this shortage is going to go away any time soon, you are living in a fantasy world. Read the Winchester 22LR thread for insight. I have boxes of 9mm that I bought at $7.00 per box 5 years ago. I believe the current retail is about $15.00. Would I be a gouger if I doubled my money?

In a current time economical viewpoint, no, that would not be gouging. That would be investing.

 

[sb0]

Understandable, See you'll get a much better response out of someone when hostility isn't perceived.
I do have a preponderance however, can you think of anything other than ammo where this would be acceptable? People would flip S**T if people were doing it with gas. Same with food, cars, etc... Ammo is the only market where some people find acceptance with this type of economic structure. Serious question though!

People would flip s**t if gas prices shot up - but they'd still be buying. Not much different than this, just on a much larger scale.

And the gun/ammo market is a volatile one, people are used to it.

Politics is one reason. The industry usually can not ramp up production on anything in response to increased demand, because increased demand is more often than not a direct result of calls for gun control.

Sorry for the hostility but it's one thing to see left wing anti gun type loons spouting economic fallacy, I really hate to see it on here of all places.

I just don't find it right. We don't NEED ammo, but to the avid shooter and hardcore gun enthusiast, we do NEED them to fuel our passion.

Well "need" is entirely subjective.

Let me expand on what I said earlier.

KelTec. They keep coming out with stuff they can't produce. But they can't raise prices, because their consumers will throw a fit. So what happens? They distribute products at low prices, gougers pick up the products and sell for inflated prices, pissing off the consumers anyway, and the extra profit goes into the pockets of the gougers rather than going back to KelTec thus allowing them to increase production. So the shortage continues. It's a lose lose situation.

Allow ammo manufacturers to increase prices and put that money towards production, people will pay the same for their ammo and the shortage will end sooner. Win win.

So allow the "gouging" to go on until things go back to normal, it's a necessary evil.

 

[gregkl]

In a current time economical viewpoint, no, that would not be gouging. That would be investing.

At this point if he is selling, he's not investing but divesting...

 

[SpaldingPM]

People would flip s**t if gas prices shot up - but they'd still be buying. Not much different than this, just on a much larger scale.

And the gun/ammo market is a volatile one, people are used to it.

Politics is one reason. The industry usually can not ramp up production on anything in response to increased demand, because increased demand is more often than not a direct result of calls for gun control.

Sorry for the hostility but it's one thing to see left wing anti gun type loons spouting economic fallacy, I really hate to see it on here of all places.



Well "need" is entirely subjective.

Let me expand on what I said earlier.

KelTec. They keep coming out with stuff they can't produce. But they can't raise prices, because their consumers will throw a fit. So what happens? They distribute products at low prices, gougers pick up the products and sell for inflated prices, pissing off the consumers anyway, and the extra profit goes into the pockets of the gougers rather than going back to KelTec thus allowing them to increase production. So the shortage continues. It's a lose lose situation.

Allow ammo manufacturers to increase prices and put that money towards production, people will pay the same for their ammo and the shortage will end sooner. Win win.

So allow the "gouging" to go on until things go back to normal, it's a necessary evil.

See, I never thought of it like you explained in your second quote response. That makes somewhat sense to me.

Regarding the gas prices... I meant that in terms of someone actually buying gas at $3.05 then selling it for $4.50 or so on the free market.

 

[sb0]

See, I never thought of it like you explained in your second quote response. That makes somewhat sense to me.

Regarding the gas prices... I meant that in terms of someone actually buying gas at $3.05 then selling it for $4.50 or so on the free market.

If I had to go to ten different Walmarts ten times each to find a single gallon of gas, I'd gladly pay the extra $1.45 to save the time and trouble.

When prices are in line with supply and demand it provides a more equal distribution based on willingness to pay rather than willingness to spend inordinate amounts of time seeking out a particular commodity.

 

[sb0]

Oh and allow me to point out that the promises of future profits by "gouging" encourages people to stock up during periods of surplus in order to sell during future shortages, thus making those shortages less severe.

Similar - Sandy price gouging: Anti-gouging laws make natural disasters worse.

 

[SpaldingPM]

Oh and allow me to point out that the promises of future profits by "gouging" encourages people to stock up during periods of surplus in order to sell during future shortages, thus making those shortages less severe.

Similar - Sandy price gouging: Anti-gouging laws make natural disasters worse.

I greatly appreciate you input on this. It started out rocky lol, but I've learned some valuable info due to you.

 

[sb0]

I greatly appreciate you input on this. It started out rocky lol, but I've learned some valuable info due to you.

No problem, I love this stuff.

Next time we have another 22lr shortage, most likely thousands, tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of people will have stashed enough 22lr that they'll be willing to sell at inflated prices, but that competition will keep those inflated prices much lower in comparison to pre-panic prices than what we have seen during this shortage.

Well, as long as the general trend (5+ years) we're seeing of increases in gun and ammo sales tapers off and leaves sufficient time for the general population to stock up at prices under normal market conditions.

 

[SpaldingPM]

At this point if he is selling, he's not investing but divesting...

Not necessarily. If I bought stock in say.... walmart 10 years ago at $50/share and say at the beginning of this fiscal year walmart stock was $200/share. That would be already be 400% investment. Say this next fiscal year, walmart stock went down to $200/s due to some horrible customer issues and scandals. Well that would still be a 200% investment, with a $150 marginal payout per share. Same concept could be applied for anything in current market retail that holds value. I know it sounds ridiculous to compare ammo market value to stock value, but its just the quickest analogy i could come up with.

 

[sb0]

Not necessarily. If I bought stock in say.... walmart 10 years ago at $50/share and say at the beginning of this fiscal year walmart stock was $200/share. That would be already be 400% investment. Say this next fiscal year, walmart stock went down to $200/s due to some horrible customer issues and scandals. Well that would still be a 200% investment, with a $150 marginal payout per share. Same concept could be applied for anything in current market retail that holds value. I know it sounds ridiculous to compare ammo market value to stock value, but its just the quickest analogy i could come up with.

What he's saying is that investing is when you buy, divesting is when you sell.

 

[SpaldingPM]

No problem, I love this stuff.

Next time we have another 22lr shortage, most likely thousands, tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of people will have stashed enough 22lr that they'll be willing to sell at inflated prices, but that competition will keep those inflated prices much lower in comparison to pre-panic prices than what we have seen during this shortage.

Well, as long as the general trend (5+ years) we're seeing of increases in gun and ammo sales tapers off and leaves sufficient time for the general population to stock up at prices under normal market conditions.

God lets hope nothing happens again, not for the sake of ammo, but for the sake of humanity.

If I don't get on the police department with the two i'm in the hiring process for this year, I'm joining the military as career, so I won't have to worry about .22lr plinking for a long long time haha