WHYYYYY are you giving in to these .22lr gougers!?

[Cameramonkey]

The supply is not limited. How anyone can assert this is completely and totally beyond me.

They raise prices. The supply is the same. The prices are higher. Gougers keep MORE supply on the market by raising prices.

The fact that they do not make supply disappear into thin air is an indisputable fact. It's still on the market for god's sake.

Think about it for 2 seconds.

For those of us who refuse to pay the inflated prices, in effect its limiting supply. (Just like in my concert analogy I am unwilling to pay $500 a seat for a $50 face value ticket just because it goes straight to a broker)

 

[Bunnykid68]

The supply is not limited. How anyone can assert this is completely and totally beyond me.

They raise prices. The supply is the same. The prices are higher. Gougers keep MORE supply on the market by raising prices.

The fact that they do not make supply disappear into thin air is an indisputable fact. It's still on the market for god's sake.

Think about it for 2 seconds.

I have thought about it. If the so called gougers/flippers quit buying it all up there would be some on the shelves. The manufactures are still making the same amount, the only ones driving the shortage at all are the flippers and those still panicking about getting it and spending double for it.

 

[bwframe]

Interesting classified add:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...es/333957-federal-22lr-partial-bulk-pack.html

 

[Bunnykid68]

Interesting classified add:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...es/333957-federal-22lr-partial-bulk-pack.html

Just rub it in, we all got infractions for posting in that thread

 

[Sigblaster]

Thread TL;DR, but anyone considered just negative repping the post of the flipper trying to hawk his overpriced boolets? Not that it matters, but enough of us destroy the flipper's rep.... Hell, who am I kidding, nobody cares about rep...

disclaimer: Just did so for the first time a few minutes ago and thought I might want to get opinions before doing this wholesale... not that it really matters except outing the douchebags for the world to see... "ooh, look, his rep is red. He must be one of the opportunistic douchebags that stands outside of a big box store and hoovers up all the ammo while the rest of us are putting food on the table for our families. "

Man, you should start negative repping that **** in the Class III forum. They're selling $1000 guns for $20,000 in there!

 

[BGDave]

This has been an interesting thread. I wonder where hoarders and buyers of opportunity fit in on the stink-o-meter? Everyone buying is not flipping.

 

[sb0]

For those of us who refuse to pay the inflated prices, in effect its limiting supply. (Just like in my concert analogy I am unwilling to pay $500 a seat for a $50 face value ticket just because it goes straight to a broker)

I'm sorry but in economic terms that's just a false statement, and when you all try to use such semantics to draw some type of parallel between completely unrelated things like commmodity shortages created by artificial limits in supply, you're being dishonest.

You're upset because prices are increased.

Of course, none of you can explain to me what justification they have for demanding a lower price than supply and demand will allow.

 

[sb0]

This has been an interesting thread. I wonder where hoarders and buyers of opportunity fit in on the stink-o-meter? Everyone buying is not flipping.

Hoarders are drying up the supply.

Gougers are correcting the unrealistic pricing at retail outlets, bringing it up to market levels.

 

[sb0]

I have thought about it. If the so called gougers/flippers quit buying it all up there would be some on the shelves. The manufactures are still making the same amount, the only ones driving the shortage at all are the flippers and those still panicking about getting it and spending double for it.

Flippers aren't driving the shortage though.

Flippers are bringing prices up to rational levels and thus enforcing that a reasonable amount of supply will remain on the market.

Supply isn't destroyed when a product is kept on the market, price and supply are two entirely separate things. What Walmart or any particular store has on its shelves at any particular price is not economically relevant, you have to look at the entire market.

So it doesn't matter what's on the shelves at a price that is completely arbitrary and emotionally deemed as "justified" by the anti price gouging crowd. That, and "supply" are two completely different things.

What's driving the shortage is demand as whole, for the purposes of hoarding or consuming. That's it. These buy low / sell high middlemen by definition don't create or limit demand or supply, they respond to market conditions.

 

[hornadylnl]

Hoarders are drying up the supply.

Gougers are correcting the unrealistic pricing at retail outlets, bringing it up to market levels.

Don't forget the mall ninjas who think they have to run a bulk pack through their tacticool 22 every weekend. That is ammo that will never again be on the market.

 

[sb0]

Don't forget the mall ninjas who think they have to run a bulk pack through their tacticool 22 every weekend. That is ammo that will never again be on the market.

Yes, purchase for the purpose of hoarding or actual consumption, exact same thing as far as the market is concerned.

But most importantly it must be recognized that middlemen by definition do not affect supply unless engaged in some type of future speculative behavior that requires holding a product and refusing to sell.

Ironically, if "gougers" were holding, rather than selling at inflated prices, these same people probably wouldn't be complaining because those prices wouldn't be in their faces. Even though that would present a much larger problem than what we have now.

 

[hornadylnl]

Yes, purchase for the purpose of hoarding or actual consumption, exact same thing as far as the market is concerned.

But most importantly it must be recognized that middlemen by definition do not affect supply unless engaged in speculative behavior.

I posed a scenario earlier that nobody seemed to want to debate. If and when 22 bulk packs go down to $20 or lower, I plan to buy several as an investment. Even if there's no future panic, they should be a better investment than any savings acount or bank cd. 5-6 years ago, federal bulk packs at Wally World were $11.95. Before the big panic, they were $18.95. What other investment could gain you that kind of return? Why is it so terrible to do this with ammo and not gold, stocks, bonds, etc?

 

[sb0]

I posed a scenario earlier that nobody seemed to want to debate. If and when 22 bulk packs go down to $20 or lower, I plan to buy several as an investment. Even if there's no future panic, they should be a better investment than any savings acount or bank cd. 5-6 years ago, federal bulk packs at Wally World were $11.95. Before the big panic, they were $18.95. What other investment could gain you that kind of return? Why is it so terrible to do this with ammo and not gold, stocks, bonds, etc?

Because the price of gold etc is actually set by supply and demand, preventing consumption driven shortages, for the purpose of investment or otherwise.

But apparently with ammo, that's not allowed for some reason.

So people will insist that the price of 22lr remain below its market value, then complain when you buy it in larger quantities because of such.

 

[shibumiseeker]

I posed a scenario earlier that nobody seemed to want to debate. If and when 22 bulk packs go down to $20 or lower, I plan to buy several as an investment. Even if there's no future panic, they should be a better investment than any savings acount or bank cd. 5-6 years ago, federal bulk packs at Wally World were $11.95. Before the big panic, they were $18.95. What other investment could gain you that kind of return? Why is it so terrible to do this with ammo and not gold, stocks, bonds, etc?

I don't think it's a problem at all. If you are buying it at a time when it's cheaper and plentiful and selling it later for a profit thus increasing available supply during a time of a shortage you didn't create then you are doing a service to the community. You aren't taking it off the shelves of retailers thus making it unavailable for purchase at that retailer's price, yet selling it again at a higher price, thus artificially restricting supply and increasing demand. As far as I am concerned, if you have the resources to do so and are on a level playing field (ie, everyone else also has the same opportunity to buy when it is plentiful) then more power to you for your foresight.

The other thing that seems to always get lost in these whines by people who didn't have foresight (I think the new shooter is justified in complaining, people who were shooters through at least the last shortage are not) is that those of us who DID buy a bunch when supplies were plentiful and who have been shooting from our "hoard" rather than from new stock bought either from a flipper or from a store before the flippers arrived, are increasing the available supply because we are not buying or buying as much.

I've shot about 50 rounds of .22lr a week for the last year and a half and only bought 600 rounds of .22lr in that time, and didn't pay more than the current retail for those 600. The other 3000 or so rounds I shot I bought at a time when anyone could have easily and cheaply done so (5000 round cases, as many as I could have afforded to buy). I've also given away 1000 rounds to various friends over the last year who would have paid some flipper 2x the current retail rate otherwise. I can continue to do this without buying any ammo for the next few years, so if I'd been buying all of that ammo then the current production supply would have been even tighter.

 

[hornadylnl]

I don't think it's a problem at all. If you are buying it at a time when it's cheaper and plentiful and selling it later for a profit thus increasing available supply during a time of a shortage you didn't create then you are doing a service to the community. You aren't taking it off the shelves of retailers thus making it unavailable for purchase at that retailer's price, yet selling it again at a higher price, thus artificially restricting supply and increasing demand. As far as I am concerned, if you have the resources to do so and are on a level playing field (ie, everyone else also has the same opportunity to buy when it is plentiful) then more power to you for your foresight.

The other thing that seems to always get lost in these whines by people who didn't have foresight (I think the new shooter is justified in complaining, people who were shooters through at least the last shortage are not) is that those of us who DID buy a bunch when supplies were plentiful and who have been shooting from our "hoard" rather than from new stock bought either from a flipper or from a store before the flippers arrived, are increasing the available supply because we are not buying or buying as much.

I've shot about 50 rounds of .22lr a week for the last year and a half and only bought 600 rounds of .22lr in that time, and didn't pay more than the current retail for those 600. The other 3000 or so rounds I shot I bought at a time when anyone could have easily and cheaply done so (5000 round cases, as many as I could have afforded to buy). I've also given away 1000 rounds to various friends over the last year who would have paid some flipper 2x the current retail rate otherwise. I can continue to do this without buying any ammo for the next few years, so if I'd been buying all of that ammo then the current production supply would have been even tighter.

But if I'm selling that ammo bought during the good times, the anti gougers won't care. They'll still call me scum. So many of these anti gougers are hypocrites in that they do the same things when they invest in gold, silver, stocks, 401k's, and IRA's. They don't invest in these things to lose money or break even. If they manage to double their funds in a short period of time, they sure aren't going to go to their brokers and say they don't want full current market price when they go to sell.

 

[sb0]

But if I'm selling that ammo bought during the good times, the anti gougers won't care. They'll still call me scum. So many of these anti gougers are hypocrites in that they do the same things when they invest in gold, silver, stocks, 401k's, and IRA's. They don't invest in these things to lose money or break even. If they manage to double their funds in a short period of time, they sure aren't going to go to their brokers and say they don't want full current market price when they go to sell.

Because their argument is an emotional and irrational one when it comes to ammo. It's just that simple.

It's something about guns I guess.

 

[hornadylnl]

Because their argument is an emotional and irrational one when it comes to ammo. It's just that simple.

It's something about guns I guess.

This isn't just about guns and ammo. It's an issue of personal character and integrity. I mentioned lp/ng contracts earlier. There were people who had contracted prices and were loving it when market prices skyrocketed. As soon as the market price went below their contracted price, they demanded to be released from their contracts.

People love free markets when they are the winners and hate them when they're the losers. People with character and integrity accept the fact that you win some and you lose some. People with character and integrity don't view others as their warehouse in times of shortages when there's no gain for the warehousers.

 

[armedindy]

Ive heard "Self-imposed" shortage many times recently, and I can not agree more. The longer people pay the extremely inflated prices the longer the gougers will be making ~100% profit. IF I see some instock and walmart or dunhams i will get a box or two, but I just cannot fathom the NEED to have .22lr RIGHT NOW! and yes you will get flamed, but it is what it is.

exactly...the "NEED to have RIGHT NOW" ammo is whichever brand of hollow points you prefer...a box of .22 lr is not a "NEED IT NOW"commodity...at least for me

 

[sb0]

This isn't just about guns and ammo. It's an issue of personal character and integrity. I mentioned lp/ng contracts earlier. There were people who had contracted prices and were loving it when market prices skyrocketed. As soon as the market price went below their contracted price, they demanded to be released from their contracts.

People love free markets when they are the winners and hate them when they're the losers. People with character and integrity accept the fact that you win some and you lose some. People with character and integrity don't view others as their warehouse in times of shortages when there's no gain for the warehousers.

Yeah, but I'm sure everyone here has lost money at some point in some market, without starting a thread on INGO about it displaying this kind of righteous indignation.

The entire industry is like this. People simply will not accept price hikes based on supply and demand. How many people on here now refuse to shop anywhere that was participating in "price gouging" during the panic? Because I know it's a substantial portion of gun enthusiasts.

When it comes to guns, with a large portion of us, all rules of economics go out the window and are replaced with irrational childish nonsense.

Not to mention that it's self centered as all hell. Just as much if not more greedy than the price gougers themselves. To try to take the moral high ground, because you want something that someone else is willing to pay more for, and you think you're entitled to it.

Anyone who argues against this type of price gouging is arguing that anyone like me who is too busy to hunt down a scarce product should pretty much be excluded from the market so they can get a cheaper price.

 

[indiucky]

People love free markets when they are the winners and hate them when they're the losers. People with character and integrity accept the fact that you win some and you lose some. People with character and integrity don't view others as their warehouse in times of shortages when there's no gain for the warehousers.

Wow Hornandy...That was damn near perfectly said....Did you cut and paste that????