Why do people freak out over snow?

[henktermaat]

LOL, my experience with ice & snow in a 4x4 dont come from a physics book!!!! Ive had about 15 years of wheel time in ice & snow, im not a pro at anything, but IVE never been able to shut down a 4x4 faster than any other vehicle.

You nailed it - that's because 4x4 vs 2x4 is not the issue, which people here seem to think. It's mass and friction (and the brains of the driver)

 

[tom1025]

I see what you are saying.....When it happens though, make sure that you are not creating a more dangerous situation for yourself and others simply due to your frustration. There is no appointment important enough to risk human life. I say this coming from a family of truck drivers and 4x4 wheelin' hillbillies. I am by no means "scared" behind a wheel. I can drive anything that runs. I have just lost too many people dear to me due to neglegent, impatient drivers. Just like an accidental discharge, it only takes one to end life. You don't always get a second chance.

I know what you mean. I have been in trucking for the past 8 years now. The first five I averaged over 100,000 miles a year on the road. But just for the record even with four wheel drive your are not going to see me passing people at 50-60 mph like alot of the other retards out there.

 

[henktermaat]

The tires have NO friction on ice. Who cares if the rotors lock up... your still gonna be moving forward at 50 mph becuse the tires are not gripping anything.... you are NOT in contact with the pavement.

That is a friction problem, pushed by mass..

Tell me how 4 powered wheels affect this differently that 2 powered wheels...

 

[Dryden]

That is a friction problem, pushed by mass..

Tell me how 4 powered wheels affect this differently that 2 powered wheels...

That's just it.... It doesn't make any difference. Niether will stop you on snow and ice.
I think we're arguing the same point while using different words.

 

[groovatron]

The tires have NO friction on ice. Who cares if the rotors lock up... your still gonna be moving forward at 50 mph becuse the tires are not gripping anything.... you are NOT in contact with the pavement.

I have seen people park on an incline with snow covered ice, and they get out and their truck starts sliding. If you want to use physics, weight and mass can actually increase slipage on ice. If you don't believe me, try taking a paper cup and pushing it on an ice rink. Now do the same with a hockey puck. Hockey puck slides way furthur. Mass and weight in a truck can actually reduce friction between ice and wheels.

 

[henktermaat]

That's just it.... It doesn't make any difference. Niether will stop you on snow and ice.
I think we're arguing the same point while using different words.

You told me that 4x4 vehicles automatically stopped worse that 2x4 vehicles man... I'm still waiting for you to tell me how this is possible.

Given the same friction (friction is ALWAYS present), given the same mass, (weight of truck on road) same tire traction, same speed, and same driver, you'll get the same results, close enough for the sake of this simulation.

The problem is meat, not truck. If you can't stop your 4x4 in the winter, you're driving it wrong.

 

[henktermaat]

I have seen people park on an incline with snow covered ice, and they get out and their truck starts sliding. If you want to use physics, weight and mass can actually increase slipage on ice. If you don't believe me, try taking a paper cup and pushing it on an ice rink. Now do the same with a hockey puck. Hockey puck slides way furthur. Mass and weight in a truck can actually reduce friction between ice and wheels.

Bzzzt.

Mass does not increase friction, mass has more "staying in motion" power. Look up Newton's three laws.

I love you all, but I am a geek and I love physics... stick around and you could learn something

 

[samot]

Hehe. Really? This is remedial middle school stuff. My apologies if you happen to be 13 and just slept thru that class last week

Mass and friction are everything in the stopping equation.

Mass: weight of the truck + load. Mass keeps on moving.
Friction: road surface friction against tire tread, brake friction against the rotor... etc. Friction is what stops mass, not whether 2 or 4 wheels are pwered.

UHMMM , i dont think you have anymore "road surface friction on a 4x4 than on a 4x2, 4 tires is 4 tires.. 2 or 4 wheels being "powered " have absolutley nothing to do with breaking, & why would there be more "friction against the rotor" on a 4x4 as apose to the exact same 4 rotors on a 2 wheel drive truck ??????

 

[Dryden]

One thing about 4X4s, they CAN drive thru snow.
One bad thing about 4X4s, they CANNOT stop on snow.

Ever notice how 18 wheelers can plow thru and yet they always wreak because they can't stop.

This is my post. I did not compare 4x4 with 2 wheel drive.
Nothing works on snow and ice except chains.

 

[henktermaat]

UHMMM , i dont think you have anymore "road surface friction on a 4x4 than on a 4x2, 4 tires is 4 tires.. 2 or 4 wheels being "powered " have absolutley nothing to do with breaking, & why would there be more "friction against the rotor" on a 4x4 as apose to the exact same 4 rotors on a 2 wheel drive truck ??????

Ding! ding!

Finally someone gets it. You need to ask Dryden why he thinks 2 more powerered wheels makes stopping harder.

 

[henktermaat]

This is my post. I did not compare 4x4 with 2 wheel drive.
Nothing works on snow and ice except chains.

You said a 4x4 cannot stop on snow... it can. I do it all the time, heck, I've done it this very day.

 

[samot]

Ding! ding!

Finally someone gets it. You need to ask Dryden why he thinks 2 more powerered wheels makes stopping harder.

Actually sir, with all due respect, & i mean with all due respect (will ferrel) if you go back & reread your posts, i think u might be arguing with yourself. ( i said with all due respect)

 

[henktermaat]

Actually sir, with all due respect, & i mean with all due respect (will ferrel) if you go back & reread your posts, i think u might be arguing with yourself. ( i said with all due respect)

I just might be, I just might be....

Still, you all are learning about physics and I am having some fun here

 

[infidel]

What is a "Newton"?

 

[Dryden]

You said a 4x4 cannot stop on snow... it can. I do it all the time, heck, I've done it this very day.

Again.... if your driving 50- 60mph (in snow and ice), you are assured of having some exciting moments before impact with a ditch, guardrail or other vehicle.

After driving in upstate NY for 30 years. I have a little experience in winter conditions. What occured today is a daily occurance when living around northern lakes. Add steep hills and curves and you learn to drive in the snow or you learn to pay for car repairs.
I've only gone off the road once.... a dog ran in front of me and I stupidly hit the brakes. As I spun three complete turns, it was a smooth glide into the ditch.

 

[henktermaat]

Again.... if your driving 50- 60mph (in snow and ice), you are assured of having some exciting moments before impact with a ditch, guardrail or other vehicle.

After driving in upstate Ny for 30 years. I have a little experience in winter conditions. What occured today is a daily occurance when living around northern lakes. Add steep hills and curves and you learn to drive in the snow or you learn to pay for car repairs.
I've only gone off the road once.... a dog ranin front of me and I stupidly hit the brakes. As I spun three complete turns, it was a smooth glide into the ditch.

Heck, I can think of situations where ANY vehicle can't stop, that's easy.

So are you backing down from your blanket statement that 4x4 vehicles cannot stop on snow, period?

 

[henktermaat]

What is a "Newton"?

 

[Dryden]

OK. Let's summerize:

Snow sucks.
Ice sucks.
People driving too fast on snow and ice suck.
People driving too slow on snow and ice suck.
People are crazy.

Anything more to add?

 

[tom1025]

What is a "Newton"?

I think they are talking about Fig Newton. All this talk is making me hungry.

 

[henktermaat]

OK. Let's summerize:

Snow sucks.
Ice sucks.
People driving too fast on snow and ice suck.
People driving too slow on snow and ice suck.
People are crazy.

Anything more to add?

Just for fun:
What do you drive?