Why do cops get free stuff?

[hornadylnl]

Few take it so far as to say you can't take a cup of coffee from an outside source. I worked the civilian sector for a little while after the Army. I held one position where I evaluated software and hardware for possible use within our organization. I could accept any "promo" up to $5 with no report. A cup of coffee, a "stress toy" for the desk, etc. Up to $25 I could accept but had to report (a dinner that the company paid for, etc.). Up to $49 I needed permission from my company to accept. $50 and over was unacceptable regardless of circumstances.

I offer a cup of coffee or soda to any serviceman who comes to my house. Comcast, the plumber, whatever. I doubt their employers make it so they can't accept that unless I ask for free cable or a free faucet in return.

And those people aren't government employees tasked with carrying out fair and impartial justice.

 

[hornadylnl]

No.

Are you saying that would be against the law or that you personally wouldn't do it?

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Are you saying that would be against the law or that you personally wouldn't do it?

I don't believe there is a law specifically criminalizing it, but IMPD would not let you hire an off-duty officer to "patrol" a property in which you didn't have a contractual interest.

 

[hornadylnl]

I don't believe there is a law specifically criminalizing it, but IMPD would not let you hire an off-duty officer to "patrol" a property in which you didn't have a contractual interest.

I think everyone here agrees that there's a line with one side being ethical and the other unethical. The disagreement is with where that line sits.

 

[Frosty]

I think everyone here agrees that there's a line with one side being ethical and the other unethical. The disagreement is with where that line sits.

I think this comes done to the fact that if a gas station gives me a free coke, I'll do business with them more than others. Good service will buy you repeat customers, and if the police get to know people that work their they are going to be a bit more protective over them, it's just human nature. I don't see a problem with it if it's saying hey you have a hard job, thanks for what you do. On the other hand if it's trying to buy protection I don't think that's right, but I doubt the officer has any knowledge of this.

 

[hornadylnl]

There is nothing I'm aware of that says you can't hire a judge "off duty". He could look over papers and do other lawyer-ish stuff for you should you find one willing to be hired. People hire legislators all the time. Its called speaking engagements. Of course they also hire them as lobbyists when they are between elected positions.

On a side note, you aren't "buying" a cop. You don't get to order him on what to do like your analogy with buying your own badge and arrest powers. One of the few part time jobs I worked was for IPL. You can tell me to watch this substation or to park there, you can't tell me to arrest someone or to let someone go. I still make all enforcement decisions. If you (as an employer) violate the ethics code and expect that, you will quickly find yourself on the list of prohibited employers. At least on my department you need an off duty work permit to work for ANY business, regardless of if you use police powers or not. If I want to seal driveways on the weekends, I have to have it approved through my department.

Judge - I hire an "off duty" judge to look over papers and do laywer-ish stuff for me. What should that judge do should I ever appear in front of his bench while "on duty" as a plaintiff or defendant and why? Could I as the plaintiff or defendant give the jury members $5 McDonald's gift cards as a token of my appreciation? I wouldn't be expecting anything in return for those gift cards.

Planning Commission - How many hours and how much money has the owners of the proposed Carmel range already spent trying to get a permit? I'm sure the owners would have no reason to want the permit process to go as quickly and smoothly as possible or a that little extra likelihood that their permit gets approved.


I have no issues with LEO's taking part time jobs and I don't think it should really be any of their employer's business if they do. I just don't think their part time employ should include the power of the government gun.

 

[hornadylnl]

I think this comes done to the fact that if a gas station gives me a free coke, I'll do business with them more than others. Good service will buy you repeat customers, and if the police get to know people that work their they are going to be a bit more protective over them, it's just human nature. I don't see a problem with it if it's saying hey you have a hard job, thanks for what you do. On the other hand if it's trying to buy protection I don't think that's right, but I doubt the officer has any knowledge of this.

And in 99% of the cases, this is true. But business owners are stating unequivocably that they think the discounts or freebies they give are getting them something in return. Real or perceived, I think that affects the fairness and impartiality of justice.

If you choose convenience store A to take a leak because they give you a free coffee over convenience store B 2 miles down the road because they don't, convenience store A did get the benefit of your presence and convenience store B didn't.

This isn't an issue I'm taking personally because an officer gets a free coffee and I don't. It's a philosophical issue for me in what does it do to the fairness and impartiality of justice.

 

[Frosty]

And in 99% of the cases, this is true. But business owners are stating unequivocably that they think the discounts or freebies they give are getting them something in return. Real or perceived, I think that affects the fairness and impartiality of justice.

If you choose convenience store A to take a leak because they give you a free coffee over convenience store B 2 miles down the road because they don't, convenience store A did get the benefit of your presence and convenience store B didn't.

This isn't an issue I'm taking personally because an officer gets a free coffee and I don't. It's a philosophical issue for me in what does it do to the fairness and impartiality of justice.

But no human will ever be truly impartial, we judge a person the second we see them, right or wrong, we all do it. If an average joe walks by, we don't bat an eye, but if it's a guy with tats all over, jeans down to his butt, and being obnoxious and loud, we go on alert. I completely agree with your points made earlier, I just don't think we can assume a human will be totally impartial, as much as they may try to be.

 

[hornadylnl]

But no human will ever be truly impartial, we judge a person the second we see them, right or wrong, we all do it. If an average joe walks by, we don't bat an eye, but if it's a guy with tats all over, jeans down to his butt, and being obnoxious and loud, we go on alert. I completely agree with your points made earlier, I just don't think we can assume a human will be totally impartial, as much as they may try to be.

I agree that no human can be totally impartial. But if requiring LEO's to give up freebies and discounts can get us closer to that goal, I say it's a small price to pay.

 

[Frosty]

I agree that no human can be totally impartial. But if requiring LEO's to give up freebies and discounts can get us closer to that goal, I say it's a small price to pay.

True, a small price, but you can't stop them from getting to know the people that work there and I think in the end it would be the same situation.

 

[Denny347]

I believe the overwhelming majority of officers aren't " bought" with freebies or discounts but my whole issue here is the ethical concerns.

Many private businesses don't allow their employees to accept gifts from outside sources. Let's say I'm a purchasing agent. Company A and Company B are competing to be my widget supplier. Company A is priced a little bit higher but they give me cash or a nice cation to choose them. It's a conflict of interest to my employer and it's unethical.

In both situations, are the expectations the same? Maybe not but the underlying principles are. If a uniformed on duty officer is not allowed to accept cash payments to patrol my neighborhood, I don't see much difference in a uniformed on duty officer taking food to provide their presence.

Again, I don't think their is widespread abuse but the potential is there and I believe it gives the appearance that protection can be bought.

You are correct, this could be abused OR a doorway into something worse. It is unlikely but I concede your point. I would say that any officer that would allow a business to influence their work ethic will do so at the risk of answering to supervisor for their actions...at the very least. That is not how I nor my partners conduct business and will have no part in it.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I agree that no human can be totally impartial. But if requiring LEO's to give up freebies and discounts can get us closer to that goal, I say it's a small price to pay.

You'd have to give me a lot more than a free drink or a half-price meal to get me to even consider giving you preferential treatment.

 

[Frosty]

You'd have to give me a lot more than a free drink or a half-price meal to get me to even consider giving you preferential treatment.

You mean you won't overlook me pedaling illegal fireworks in the back for a free old, small coffee??? What kind of thanks is that??? Since you said a lot more, what exactly is your price, ya know, just for future reference

 

[stephen87]

Probably some new jack-boots. I hear those aren't that cheap, especially when you wear size DAMN! like Frank.

 

[Frosty]

Probably some new jack-boots. I hear those aren't that cheap, especially when you wear size DAMN! like Frank.

Size DAMN I wear size CRAP, but only work boots, I guess I won't be able to afford franks "blind eye"

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

You mean you won't overlook me pedaling illegal fireworks in the back for a free old, small coffee??? What kind of thanks is that??? Since you said a lot more, what exactly is your price, ya know, just for future reference

Its a spur-of-the-moment thing, I don't have a set price.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Probably some new jack-boots. I hear those aren't that cheap, especially when you wear size DAMN! like Frank.

Now that right there is funny.

 

[Frosty]

Its a spur-of-the-moment thing, I don't have a set price.

Well hopefully your feeling generous when I'm in beech grove. Btw, you guys were busy this morning, I counted at least 3 pull overs while I was trying to navigate your damn tiny streets in my big freakin' truck!

 

[Bunnykid68]

Resort to all the name calling that you want, it doesn't change the fact that you say all officers are bad, except for the three or four that I know. That's an interested philosophy??

Can you quote your claims?

Did you read this thread or just one or two posts?

Can you quote where he has said this? Either you can or you can't.

I'm betting he can't. Just a hunch, and by hunch I mean fact.

No he cannot, because I am the one that said that but he is trying to blame Horn

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I'd like to point out that the cop lives over an hour away. The cop hater took the time to drive to his house, wired his outlet, used his own electrical wire, went with the cop to help pick up the air compressor, and didn't ask for a penny. All because the cop asked for help.

Quite the cop hater.

He probably wired in a fault to send out ultrasonic brain destroying waves of electricity.*


*I don't really understand how electricity works.

And those people aren't government employees tasked with carrying out fair and impartial justice.

Of course. However that was a direct reply to

Many private businesses don't allow their employees to accept gifts from outside sources.

I'm relating my experience with the private sector that contradicts that. That said, if the price of fair and impartial justice or an $80k purchase order is a cup of coffee, we're well beyond the point where such ethics rules matter. Private businesses and public entities both recognize that a certain level of "freebie" is simply courtesy and not an attempt at bribery or gaining favoritism, however at a certain point it crosses the line. I can ethically accept coffee. I cannot ethically accept a Corvette. Where the line is drawn is open to debate, but its disingenuous to suggest if I was a private employee I would be prohibited from accepting a gratuity that I receive as a public employee.

Are you saying that would be against the law or that you personally wouldn't do it?

I don't think there's a law against it specifically. If I were off duty and sitting in a parking lot of a business, I could be trespassed like anyone else since I'm not there on official business. More realistically what would happen, it wouldn't pass ethics from Professional Standards (our version of Internal Affairs), the person requesting such a service would not be an authorized employer, and I'd be disciplined or fired for taking the job.

I've locked up the manager at McD's who'd given me free food multiple times. I think you seriously overestimate the ability of a small freebie to grind the wheels of justice to a halt. I think you'd likely be insulted if I suggested you would change your ethics for a cup of coffee. I think I mentioned earlier that I offer any tradesman who comes to my house a free coffee or soda. Do you think a free soda would make you so enthralled with me that you'd collude to commit insurance fraud, when without that soda you'd have said no? Of course not. You have integrity or you don't, and a minor gratuity isn't going to change that.

I am all for ethics committee oversight of any public official's part time jobs, including cops. I'm also for a bright line rule and codified ethics statement about what gratuities or freebies (premiums) can be accepted. I very much agree there is a line. I just don't think its so insultingly cheap.