What is "Black Lives Matter"?

[jamil]

First, you need to demonstrate that there is a statistically significant difference in the rates of death penalties. Then, you need to provide evidence that any statistically significant difference is due to racism. Only then, can you even begin to discuss whether the observed racism is "institutional" or not.

So, where do your numbers come from? This one might be interesting to study.

Whether his example is actually due to racism or not, it's still irrelevant for determining if it's institutional or not. I don't think judges or juries are encouraged by the system to give the death penalty to Blacks 3:1. If the decisions are based on race, it is because of their own individual biases. Again, a plurality or even majority of opinions doesn't make it institutional. There has to be an institution first.

 

[jamil]

Well played, sir.

I disagree. Your move.

 

[eldirector]

I'll give you one example. You can decide if it's worth your effort to look further. But obviously, I woun't expect that you will. What is the policy or law in which a black man that kills a white man is 3X more likely to get the death penalty, than the converse?

Is that 3x more likely, or 3x more on death row?

 

[Kutnupe14]

You're wrong about that. You're still conflating individual racism with institutional racism. Institutional racism is illegal. Unconstitutional. Even if it's de facto unwritten policy, it still distills into individuals making individual choices. If racism is the cause of your example--you haven't proven it is, but for the sake of argument--a plurality of like minded individual racists who make that decision is not the same as institutional racism. You said 3x more likely to get the death penalty. That means it's still dependent upon the mindset of the people deciding the case. At most that is a plurality of individual bias and not institutional racism. And as I've said, that has a much different solution than institutional racism does.

Who recommends those charges, who pics the jury for the prosecution? Is it a private individual or the state?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Is that 3x more likely, or 3x more on death row?

3x more likely.

 

[bmbutch]

I'll give you one example. You can decide if it's worth your effort to look further. But obviously, I woun't expect that you will. What is the policy or law in which a black man that kills a white man is 3X more likely to get the death penalty, than the converse?

Looking at this further, Cornell Study said:
The Cornell researchers found that blacks who kill whites are the likeliest to receive death sentences, followed by whites who kill whites and then blacks who kill blacks. But "because black offenders nearly always murder black victims, reluctance to seek death in black victim cases ... more than offsets the propensity to seek death sentences for blacks who murder whites," the authors report.

This came from link below:
Death Penalty Is Less Likely For Blacks, New Study Says - WSJ

 

[eldirector]

3x more likely.

Huh.
http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1110&context=lcp

The data…shows that forty-eight percent of murder victims are black. It also shows that the vast majority of murders are intraracial not interracial. Among murders involving black and white persons, ninety percent involve a white killing a white or a black killing a black. Almost three-quarters of the rest involve blacks murdering whites, and only a small handful involve whites murdering blacks. Knowing this, the number of blacks on death row and the number of blacks executed do not look far out of line…"

 

[Birds Away]

Huh.
http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1110&context=lcp

Hmm, another oft-quoted statistic found to be false.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Whether his example is actually due to racism or not, it's still irrelevant for determining if it's institutional or not. I don't think judges or juries are encouraged by the system to give the death penalty to Blacks 3:1. If the decisions are based on race, it is because of their own individual biases. Again, a plurality or even majority of opinions doesn't make it institutional. There has to be an institution first.

3x more likely to receive the death penalty, when the victim is white. Gosh, that doesn't seem similar to anything in America in years past. Not a bit. Nor does stop and frisk. Nor exclusion from juries. Nor racial profiling. Nor the disparity of quality of schools, nor health and environment. Black people suffer this simply because they are unlucky, right?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Huh.
http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1110&context=lcp

Students or Lawyers?
http://www.americanbar.org/content/...odern_death_penalty_web_file.authcheckdam.pdf

 

[eldirector]

Students or Lawyers?
http://www.americanbar.org/content/...odern_death_penalty_web_file.authcheckdam.pdf

Interesting. This seems to support that the race of the victim matters, not the perp. I'll read through again, but I didn't see anywhere that "blacks" were 3x more likely to be put on death row. There was a whole section (Issue 5) that did say that murders of "whites" were more likely to be put on death row than murderers of "blacks". Never mentioned the race of the perp.

I hope there isn't an assumption being made.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Interesting. This seems to support that the race of the victim matters, not the perp. I'll read through again, but I didn't see anywhere that "blacks" were 3x more likely to be put on death row. There was a whole section (Issue 5) that did say that murders of "whites" were more likely to be put on death row than murderers of "blacks". Never mentioned the race of the perp.

I hope there isn't an assumption being made.

Ok..... and that changes the idea of institutional racism how, if not doubling down on the worth of life based on skin color? Look at the title again of this thread again.

 

[eldirector]

Ok..... and that changes the idea of institutional racism how, if not doubling down on the worth of life based on skin color? Look at the title again of this thread again.

Well, it seems to negate "3x more likely for blacks to be put on death row" as an example.

Not saying "institutional racism" doesn't exist. Just that the provided example does not fit.

 

[jamil]

Who recommends those charges, who pics the jury for the prosecution? Is it a private individual or the state?

I think you're looking for a technical victory here where there isn't one.

Are we a nation of laws or not? If we are a nation of laws, and our constitution forbids government to have racist policies and laws, but still some individuals in government use their authority to discriminate based on race, then it's not "the state" that is discriminating. It is still the individuals who have the biases. How do I know it's individuals? Because it's not uniformly practiced. It's not *institutional*. It's luck of the draw whether that authority figure is biased or not. You're not going to fix that with more laws. How much more illegal can we make institutional discrimination?

Again, let's assume just for the sake of argument that there are many individuals in government using their power to discriminate against Blacks. What is your plan to stop it? The only way we have now is to seek them out individually, and prosecute them individually, and let due process take its course.

So if you still insist that there is institutional racism or racial discrimination, please point it out, and then tell me what the solution is.

 

[jamil]

3x more likely to receive the death penalty, when the victim is white. Gosh, that doesn't seem similar to anything in America in years past. Not a bit. Nor does stop and frisk. Nor exclusion from juries. Nor racial profiling. Nor the disparity of quality of schools, nor health and environment. Black people suffer this simply because they are unlucky, right?

Okay. That's only slightly moving the goal posts from blacks are 3X more likely to get the death penalty.

On some of the other stuff... Stop and frisk, I'm against it, but not because I think it's particularly racist. I'm against racial profiling, but I'm not against profiling absolutely in any case.

Disparity in the quality of schools still goes back to individual decisions, and Democrats. Black people don't suffer simply because they're unlucky. The black people suffer mostly because of Democrats.

Ok..... and that changes the idea of institutional racism how, if not doubling down on the worth of life based on skin color? Look at the title again of this thread again.

Again, it's not institutional if it's not systematic. Individual people have individual biases. I thought that's something we both agree on. If it's institutional, we can and have passed laws to make that illegal. If it's still happening, yet another law making institutional racism extraspecial illegal isn't going to make it any less pervasive.

I'm looking at this in terms of corrective actions. The solution for institutional racism is to stop having laws and policies that are racist. But we've already done that. The rest is up to individuals to stop valuing other people based on their skin color. You can't make a law to stop people from thinking what they're thinking. It's already illegal for them to act based on discrimination.

I keep repeating myself for a reason.

 

[printcraft]

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[rhino]

I disagree. Your move.

No!

 

[ART338WM]

Is it a movement? Is it an organization?

I saw the topic come up in another thread on the murders in Dallas.

The linked article from January of 16 gives some insight as to what "Black Lives Matter" really is and what is behind it.

Reds Exploiting Blacks: The Roots of Black Lives Matter

I thought it may be worth sharing here so people know and are aware.

Best regards.

Useless and soon to disappear now that the snatacRATS lost the election, because now black lies/lives truly no longer matter to the left, because their votes aren't needed.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Useless and soon to disappear now that the snatacRATS lost the election, because now black lies/lives truly no longer matter to the left, because their votes aren't needed.

You know, you just contradicted yourself right?

 

[MikeBrennan]

If we're talking about "institutional racism", yeah. Pretty small problem compared to other problems. "Institutional racism" is a made up term used to convince people there's some kind of problem that their solutions will solve. There is "individual racism" still. And individuals can group together and make it group racism. But that's not the same as "institutional racism. And individual racism has a different solution than the nebulous "institution".

Institutional racism?

Would a law whereby selected races were discriminated against, or favored over others, be an example? Something like a law where only X% of race A can be admitted to a state institution in order to ensure Y% of race B is admitted to the institution?