What is "Black Lives Matter"?

[Kutnupe14]

Yet they make no distinctions while claiming victim status.

This will be my last post in this thread. We don't have an issue with race in this country, we have an issue with cultures. There are a wide variety of them and most of them can coexist without issue. There are some which are destructive and down right ugly. Participation in these cultures is voluntary once a person grows to an age where they are capable of making decisions for themselves. I myself made this decision when I was 17 years old and made a complete change in direction. Members of these ugly cultures can scream all they want to but they will never be accepted by the others so long as they continue to act the way they do. It doesn't have a damned thing to do with skin color.

I respect your opinion, but I disagree. We are just looking through the world from different perspectives. Personally, I think there's merit to both the race AND culture arguments. However, I also believe one can not(regardless of which way you believe), say that one is problem and the other is not.

 

[OneBadV8]

I respect your opinion, but I disagree. We are just looking through the world from different perspectives. Personally, I think there's merit to both the race AND culture arguments. However, I also believe one can not(regardless of which way you believe), say that one is problem and the other is not.

So, I've been semi following this one (as I think all the mods are ).

Serious question, based on a few posts. What benefit do you get out of identifying as Black-American vs American? And why do it? I think Morgan Freeman was correct in saying we need to quit talking about it, in regards to using it as an identifying term. Again, I understand if you're the first or maybe second generation to the country but beyond that it should just be American.

 

[Woobie]

Well I missed out on a few pages. Some of it good, some of it convoluted self-contradictory crap. I was wondering if there was some common ground to be reached, or if I needed to change my thinking on some things. But after trying, I'm right back where I started. Maybe I'm talking to the wrong person, or in the wrong setting.

So after all this, it's still: I don't care about your race. All I care about is your character. Can you do the job? Are you honest? Are you compassionate? What talents do you have, and are you developing them? I have my culture and you have yours. I respect those differences. If your heritage is a big deal to you, that's great. But it isn't to me. I don't care about my own geneology beyond curiosity. I don't care if you just got here (legally), your grandpa was a slave, or there's a castle back in England with your name on it, and your family came over in the 1600's. It's interesting, but it doesn't matter. Even if you care, I still don't. I will go shooting with you, help you move, pour your concrete patio, share dinner at my place or yours with our families. But my relationships with people will continue to be built individually, and based upon character. And I will continue to have limited concern for things I can not affect.

I can't help but think if more people took this attitude, instead of looking upon every racist interaction between two individuals as something that requires a national movement and government "solutions", that social conditions wouldn't be nearly as poor in this country as they are currently.

 

[churchmouse]

Well I missed out on a few pages. Some of it good, some of it convoluted self-contradictory crap. I was wondering if there was some common ground to be reached, or if I needed to change my thinking on some things. But after trying, I'm right back where I started. Maybe I'm talking to the wrong person, or in the wrong setting.

So after all this, it's still: I don't care about your race. All I care about is your character. Can you do the job? Are you honest? Are you compassionate? What talents do you have, and are you developing them? I have my culture and you have yours. I respect those differences. If your heritage is a big deal to you, that's great. But it isn't to me. I don't care about my own geneology beyond curiosity. I don't care if you just got here (legally), your grandpa was a slave, or there's a castle back in England with your name on it, and your family came over in the 1600's. It's interesting, but it doesn't matter. Even if you care, I still don't. I will go shooting with you, help you move, pour your concrete patio, share dinner at my place or yours with our families. But my relationships with people will continue to be built individually, and based upon character. And I will continue to have limited concern for things I can not affect.

I can't help but think if more people took this attitude, instead of looking upon every racist interaction between two individuals as something that requires a national movement and government "solutions", that social conditions wouldn't be nearly as poor in this country as they are currently.

Those who cry out for social justice are trying to force a a culture/way of thinking on the rest of society. LBGT crowd, BLM crowd....no difference really.

 

[Kutnupe14]

So, I've been semi following this one (as I think all the mods are ).

Serious question, based on a few posts. What benefit do you get out of identifying as Black-American vs American? And why do it? I think Morgan Freeman was correct in saying we need to quit talking about it, in regards to using it as an identifying term. Again, I understand if you're the first or maybe second generation to the country but beyond that it should just be American.

Phylo asked the same thing earlier, but I'll answer it again. I see no benefit. I don't think there's a purpose outside of simply identifying. Do you think there is some sort of benefit in Asian people identifying as Asian-American? And there's not, what the difference between blacks saying Black-American and Asians saying Asian-American?

Blackhawk earlier mentioned something about the hyphen being relevant, to Irish, Italians, and Polish, for about "60 or 70 years" before it fell out of favor, and those person felt comfortable embracing simply "American." Ok, let's say that's true. If it is, then it begs the question as to why it took "60 or 70 years" for there to be that change? What was their condition like 70 years ago, and what was their condition 70 years later?

As far as Morgan Freeman goes, he's a celebrity. In most instances, I don't really look to logic of the ultra-rich and ultra-famous, because their status often keeps them out of touch with reality.

 

[OneBadV8]

Phylo asked the same thing earlier, but I'll answer it again. I see no benefit. I don't think there's a purpose outside of simply identifying. Do you think there is some sort of benefit in Asian people identifying as Asian-American? And there's not, what the difference between blacks saying Black-American and Asians saying Asian-American?

Blackhawk earlier mentioned something about the hyphen being relevant, to Irish, Italians, and Polish, for about "60 or 70 years" before it fell out of favor, and those person felt comfortable embracing simply "American." Ok, let's say that's true. If it is, then it begs the question as to why it took "60 or 70 years" for there to be that change? What was their condition like 70 years ago, and what was their condition 70 years later?

As far as Morgan Freeman goes, he's a celebrity. In most instances, I don't really look to logic of the ultra-rich and ultra-famous, because their status often keeps them out of touch with reality.

So you have the stance as him, yet he is out of touch with reality?

And you don't think if every application, form, etc quit asking about race and all Americans simply said "American" that people wouldn't look at themselves and each other as different?

 

[Kutnupe14]

So you have the stance as him, yet he is out of touch with reality?

And you don't think if every application, form, etc quit asking about race and all Americans simply said "American" that people wouldn't look at themselves and each other as different?

First sentence, "same" or "different" - I think you missed a word.

Second part, yes. If that was done, it would be a small step on the right path in having a unified American identity.

 

[OneBadV8]

First sentence, "same" or "different" - I think you missed a word.

Same stance...

Second part, yes. If that was done, it would be a small step on the right path in having a unified American identity.

That's what I'd like to see happen as well. Maybe that should be a new push to lobby for, no more race identity on any forms (except maybe medical, because that is actually helpful with some things).

 

[Kutnupe14]

Same stance...


That's what I'd like to see happen as well. Maybe that should be a new push to lobby for, no more race identity on any forms (except maybe medical, because that is actually helpful with some things).

To be philosophically consistent, I can't dismiss celebs, as celebs, when they have views I oppose (like concerning the 2nd Amendment) and then the cite them as "troof," when they have views I do agree with.

 

[T.Lex]

Here's something that can't be ignored: BLM is an opportunity for ambitious people to accrue power and money. It is the professional trajectory blazed by Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

Granted, ideally the people involved have some altruistic motivation. But, the more... financially rewarding... aspects can't be denied.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Here's something that can't be ignored: BLM is an opportunity for ambitious people to accrue power and money. It is the professional trajectory blazed by Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

Granted, ideally the people involved have some altruistic motivation. But, the more... financially rewarding... aspects can't be denied.

Certainly not. I'm sure there are plenty of people associated with the movement intent on making a fast buck.

 

[jamil]

I respect your opinion, but I disagree. We are just looking through the world from different perspectives. Personally, I think there's merit to both the race AND culture arguments. However, I also believe one can not(regardless of which way you believe), say that one is problem and the other is not.

Kut, I have to agree with Phylodog to a point. The issue is more about culture. We naturally use race as a sort of visual identifier of culture, a form of stereotyping. I remember debating my Hispanic niece about George Zimmerman. I wanted to impress upon her that the whole thing really wasn't a racial issue, it was more about culture. She kept calling him a white racist. I told her he's Hispanic, just like her. She doesn't refer to herself as White, why is Zimmerman White if she's not. She said, well, he acts white, so he might as well be white. I replied, well, then it isn't really about race then, is it? The issue is culture.

Some black people act "white", some white people act "black". And I say, who cares? Why must culture be tied to physical characteristics? Why is "cultural appropriation" such a naughty thing to progressive zealots? People who protest others who adopt cultural behaviors, are the very definition of racist. Culture can and should be independent from race and it should be seen as complimentary when someone adopts elements from other cultures. If we stay on this trajectory of social justice, I can see a day when I'll be called a racist because I like real Jazz music.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Parts is parts...

 

[OneBadV8]

To be philosophically consistent, I can't dismiss celebs, as celebs, when they have views I oppose (like concerning the 2nd Amendment) and then the cite them as "troof," when they have views I do agree with.

You can agree with statements they make, without endorsing them. That would be like finding a politician that you agree with 100%, a unicorn or a brass magnet.

 

[printcraft]

So Rachel Dolezal and Shaun King had it right this whole time? Who knew!?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Kut, I have to agree with Phylodog to a point. The issue is more about culture. We naturally use race as a sort of visual identifier of culture, a form of stereotyping. I remember debating my Hispanic niece about George Zimmerman. I wanted to impress upon her that the whole thing really wasn't a racial issue, it was more about culture. She kept calling him a white racist. I told her he's Hispanic, just like her. She doesn't refer to herself as White, why is Zimmerman White if she's not. She said, well, he acts white, so he might as well be white. I replied, well, then it isn't really about race then, is it? The issue is culture.

Some black people act "white", some white people act "black". And I say, who cares? Why must culture be tied to physical characteristics? Why is "cultural appropriation" such a naughty thing to progressive zealots? People who protest others who adopt cultural behaviors, are the very definition of racist. Culture can and should be independent from race and it should be seen as complimentary when someone adopts elements from other cultures. If we stay on this trajectory of social justice, I can see a day when I'll be called a racist because I like real Jazz music.

I certainly appreciate the quotes. And you put forth a truth, that for many will be hard to swallow when I say it. I know lots of black men that are educated, intelligent, employed, law-abiding, and dress snappily. Not a handful, but lots. A few year back, we got together for a wedding, and started talking about our time in college, at UF. The discussion turned to the president at the time, who was ousted for calling a black regent an "oreo." We then discussed what that meant. An oreo, obviously is black on the outside, but white on the inside. It is one of the most offensive "compliments," a white person can say to a black person. It implies that a successful, law-abiding black person, isn't "really black," because they don't fit a pre-conceived notion that white people have in their minds about black people. In one fell swoop, they strip away one's blackness, and give honorary whiteness. I myself have been called an oreo, or referred to as the "whitest black guy," as have many other people I know.
Conversely when a white person "acts black," that is a negative thing, again illustrating pre-conceived notions about blackness.

 

[KJQ6945]

 

[printcraft]

They went a llttle too white on Carlton.

 

[rhino]

They went a llttle too white on Carlton.

Did they, printcraft? DID they?

 

[indiucky]

I just want to point out that at 34 pages since Saturday this has to be a record for a plinker's first post...