Was Reagan a good president?

[jgreiner]

He was before my time but the more I read the more terrible he seems.

1. Father of deficit spending.
2. Banned MG (I know what it helped, I feel it was worse in the long run)
3. Had no use for "assault rifles"
4. Continued Eisenhower's cold war


I've found many have a romanticized view of who he was. Either history hasn't been kind to him or he was a terrible president.

First off, DEMOCRATS controlled Congress during his tenure, as they had since the Great Depression. And the HOUSE is who controls spending. the REAL increase in deficit spending stemmed from the great society reforms under JOHNSON.

The cold war was a necessary evil. and if I recall, he WON that war...when the walls in Berlin came down, and the Soviet Empire crumbled.

MG?

 

[jgreiner]

The economy helped FDR, not so much the war. Reagan's economy (from what I've read) wasn't great.

No...the economy turned all war production during WWII. That in turn, created many shortages for goods in this country during the war. when the war ended, buying of those goods went into overdrive, which boosted the economy.

the war bailed out the failed policies of FDR and Keynesian Economics. As you can see, these policies aren't doing much to help our lousy economy right now.

 

[Hohn]

Here's more data on Presidential Spending:

Here's how to read this chart: the top line is spending as a percent of GDP (black data points for each year) shown by a President's term. The red lines in each President's term show the variation (3 standard deviations from the mean) and the green lines show the actual average for the entire Presidential Term (4 years or 8).

The bottom line shows rates of change. The drop from 1946-47 of almost 13% (of GDP) shows up as a dot at 1947 of 13. Note that both increases and decreases will cause the bottom line to jump-- it is a measure of MAGNITUDE, not of direction.

It's striking how minor the changes in spending really were. This is likely why we ended up with such a mess-- things happened so slowly (like the frog in the pot) that we became numb to the change.

But it is a fact that, until Obama came along to obliterate all records of spending, Reagan and Bush41 were the spendiest administrations after WW2.

 

[DragonGunner]

I remember before Reagan, Jimy Carter was a total embarrasment to this country. Iran was holding our citizens hostage and Carter looked like the weakest man on earth. The economy sucked, everything sucked. Reagan changed all that, I disagree with many things like his MG ban and a couple others. But he turned us around, brought us together rather than always looking to divide. Even the Democrats that hated him actually loved him.

 

[DC47374]

"Mr. Gorbachev tear down this wall!!"
Enough said. Obama is a blend between FDR and Jimmy Carter....nothing good can come of that.

 

[HoughMade]

Hindsight's apparently a lot better than 20/20. No president is perfect. There will never be a perfect president. Was he batter than the Democrat nominees?

Honestly, if Jesus Christ returned and appeared to you, you'd take issue with his haircut, the length of his tunic and claim that they were right to choose Barabas.

 

[CarmelHP]

I remember before Reagan, Jimy Carter was a total embarrasment to this country. Iran was holding our citizens hostage and Carter looked like the weakest man on earth. The economy sucked, everything sucked. Reagan changed all that, I disagree with many things like his MG ban and a couple others. But he turned us around, brought us together rather than always looking to divide. Even the Democrats that hated him actually loved him.

Wait, how was it his ban? I gave a great deal of attention to the movement of FOPA at the time. Republicans had been trying to get through the Democrat House for 6 years but they wouldn't give it a vote. In '86 there were enough signatures for a discharge petition and a vote was forced. In the wee hours of the morning the Democrats slipped in a poison pill, the MG freeze, and Charlie Rangel gaveled down a voice vote as "YEA" when it clearly was not. Reagan initially said he wouldn't sign with the ban attached, but was prevailed upon by pro-gun groups and the bill sponsors who said they would get it stripped out in conference, which didn't happen as the Dems packed the conference committee with anti-gunners. They then said that they could get it fixed in the next session, but the '86 election finished that hope. At the time I was pretty damned outraged by the freeze. However, as time went on I've come to see passing FOPA as the best thing to happen in the gun world in the post'68 years. It rolled back all the provisions that Dems are now trying to reinstate. Before FOPA you had to buy even a single case or primer through an FFL. I was paying $20 a box for 9mm FMJ in 1984 and there was a sale at a dealer for $12 a box and I bought all I could. Those were 1984 prices and people complain about prices today. Safe transit was written into law. Surplus rifles started to be importable for the first time since 1968. It was a gun bonanza. How does Reagan get blamed and get no credit, while the Democrats who pushed it and sneaked it into the bill get off free?

 

[AtTheMurph]

I'm just glad we don't have a corporate stooge playing to special interests now.

I thought sarcasm was supposed to be in purple?

 

[roisigns]

Prior to Reagan, America was in terrible doldrums and self-doubt dating back to about 1968 due to Vietnam, Watergate, Iran and 15% inflation under Carter. I remember the 70's well and my father was a farmer and an autoworker during that period.

Reagan projected & encouraged optimism & pride in being American.

Unfortunately, the debt really began its increase as a percent of GDP during his administration. This deficit spending contributed to the stock market increases beginning in 1983.

Democrats controlled House, and therefore spending, during his presidency.

 

[CarmelHP]

Spending increased under Reagan because he had to refit a military that had been allowed to deteriorate under several administrations. The almost lone legitimate role of the federal government is national defense.

 

[jgreiner]

Here's more data on Presidential Spending:

Here's how to read this chart: the top line is spending as a percent of GDP (black data points for each year) shown by a President's term. The red lines in each President's term show the variation (3 standard deviations from the mean) and the green lines show the actual average for the entire Presidential Term (4 years or 8).

The bottom line shows rates of change. The drop from 1946-47 of almost 13% (of GDP) shows up as a dot at 1947 of 13. Note that both increases and decreases will cause the bottom line to jump-- it is a measure of MAGNITUDE, not of direction.

It's striking how minor the changes in spending really were. This is likely why we ended up with such a mess-- things happened so slowly (like the frog in the pot) that we became numb to the change.

But it is a fact that, until Obama came along to obliterate all records of spending, Reagan and Bush41 were the spendiest administrations after WW2.

As I stated before, the HOUSE is who approves all budgetary bills. and Democrats controlled the House until 1994. Most of CLINTONS thriftness came unwillingly by him, from a PUB House.

Legislative functions

Most bills may be introduced in either House of Congress. However, the Constitution provides that "All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives". As a result, the Senate cannot initiate bills imposing taxes. This provision barring the Senate from introducing revenue bills is based on the practice of the British Parliament, in which only the House of Commons may originate such measures. Furthermore, Congressional tradition holds that the House of Representatives originates appropriation bills.
Although it cannot originate revenue bills, the Senate retains the power to amend or reject them. As Woodrow Wilson wrote:

[T]he Senate's right to amend [revenue bills] has been allowed the widest possible scope. The upper house may add to them what it pleases; may go altogether outside of their original provisions and tack to them entirely new features of legislation, altering not only the amounts but even the objects of expenditure, and making out of the materials sent them by the popular chamber measures of an almost totally new character.[citation needed]
​

The approval of the Senate and the House of Representatives is required for a bill to become law. Both Houses must pass the same version of the bill; if there are differences, they may be resolved by a conference committee, which includes members of both bodies. For the stages through which bills pass in the Senate, see Act of Congress.
The President may veto a bill passed by the House and Senate. If he does, the bill does not become law unless a two-thirds supermajority in each chamber votes to override the veto.

 

[Hohn]

It's a misnomer to imply that ONLY the house approves spending bills.

All spending bills must *originate* in the House-- but must get through the Senate also and gain Presidential signature to become law.

That's why it's misleading to assign blame (or credit, depending on who's arguing about what) to just a President or just the House or Senate.

The bottom line is actually rather simple. We vote for these people. There's only one group to blame for our problems, and the member of this group closest to you can be found in the mirror.

JH

 

[Hohn]

I can find articles that showing almost anything but that doesn't make them accurate.

True, but completely irrelevant unless you want to point out exactly what was inaccurate in the article (as I did by referencing the use of "national income" vice GDP.)

 

[jgreiner]

It's a misnomer to imply that ONLY the house approves spending bills.

All spending bills must *originate* in the House-- but must get through the Senate also and gain Presidential signature to become law.

That's why it's misleading to assign blame (or credit, depending on who's arguing about what) to just a President or just the House or Senate.

The bottom line is actually rather simple. We vote for these people. There's only one group to blame for our problems, and the member of this group closest to you can be found in the mirror.

JH

I never said ONLY the house passes spending bills. but they are SUPPOSED to only originate there. That was NOT true of Obamacare, however.

 

[Hohn]

Wait, how was it his ban? I gave a great deal of attention to the movement of FOPA at the time. Republicans had been trying to get through the Democrat House for 6 years but they wouldn't give it a vote. In '86 there were enough signatures for a discharge petition and a vote was forced. In the wee hours of the morning the Democrats slipped in a poison pill, the MG freeze, and Charlie Rangel gaveled down a voice vote as "YEA" when it clearly was not. Reagan initially said he wouldn't sign with the ban attached, but was prevailed upon by pro-gun groups and the bill sponsors who said they would get it stripped out in conference, which didn't happen as the Dems packed the conference committee with anti-gunners. They then said that they could get it fixed in the next session, but the '86 election finished that hope. At the time I was pretty damned outraged by the freeze. However, as time went on I've come to see passing FOPA as the best thing to happen in the gun world in the post'68 years. It rolled back all the provisions that Dems are now trying to reinstate. Before FOPA you had to buy even a single case or primer through an FFL. I was paying $20 a box for 9mm FMJ in 1984 and there was a sale at a dealer for $12 a box and I bought all I could. Those were 1984 prices and people complain about prices today. Safe transit was written into law. Surplus rifles started to be importable for the first time since 1968. It was a gun bonanza. How does Reagan get blamed and get no credit, while the Democrats who pushed it and sneaked it into the bill get off free?

Brilliantly stated. I'd rep you, but it says I have to "spread some around" or something??

 

[indiucky]

Oh yes, lets go back to 78 or 79. You know, when we tied yellow ribbons around oak trees in hope it would persuade militant Islamist into letting our people come home. Or how about 22% interest rate on your house loan, 4% inflation. Yeah, the 80's without Reagan would have been marvelous.

Perfect...It's hard to explain to the youngsters who weren't there how good "Morning in America" was after the debacle that was the late 70's. The media hated him something fierce and he just gave it right back to them...He was a great man...I visited his gravesite in California the year he died and I stood by myself by his grave and felt honored to just be there...Even dead and buried he still gave me goosebumps....

"It's not that liberals are dumb....They just know so much that isn't so.."
Ronlad Reagan

"Mr. Gorbachov...Tear down this wall.."
Ronald Reagan

"The subject of age has come up this election and I want the American people to not let my opponents youth and lack of experiance be the reason for not voting for him..."
Ronald Reagan

I miss you Gipper....Haters gonna hate but I for one miss you and thank you for the pride you brought back to the American people...Some folks thought there was no bear in the woods but you knew there was and then you broke that bears back through sheer will and out spending...God Bless you Sir....


IMHO lest my defense of Ronald Wilson Reagan be construed as "testy".

 

[Smokepole]

True, but completely irrelevant unless you want to point out exactly what was inaccurate in the article (as I did by referencing the use of "national income" vice GDP.)

And you did that well too.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Perfect...It's hard to explain to the youngsters who weren't there how good "Morning in America" was after the debacle that was the late 70's. The media hated him something fierce and he just gave it right back to them...He was a great man...I visited his gravesite in California the year he died and I stood by myself by his grave and felt honored to just be there...Even dead and buried he still gave me goosebumps....

"It's not that liberals are dumb....They just know so much that isn't so.."
Ronlad Reagan

"Mr. Gorbachov...Tear down this wall.."
Ronald Reagan

"The subject of age has come up this election and I want the American people to not let my opponents youth and lack of experiance be the reason for not voting for him..."
Ronald Reagan

I miss you Gipper....Haters gonna hate but I for one miss you and thank you for the pride you brought back to the American people...Some folks thought there was no bear in the woods but you knew there was and then you broke that bears back through sheer will and out spending...God Bless you Sir....


IMHO lest my defense of Ronald Wilson Reagan be construed as "testy".

This is one of those cases where "ya had to be there" to appreciate how bad Carter was - and how refreshing the change was. I know that the younger crowd here may not appreciate it - but this is one of the cases where it might pay to listen to those who were there. I'm 46 and was barely on the edge of it. Their eyewitness account, in my mind carries more weight than the revisionist history of those who have an axe to grind and/or weren't there.

It's sort of like "who are you going to believe more about life as a Jew as the Nazi's were coming to power - Anne Frank's diary? or a historical write up by somebody with an axe to grind - say Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for example?"

Reagan wasn't perfect by any stretch - but if you ask those who were adults when he was in the White House, most all would take him hands down over any President in our lifetimes.

 

[roisigns]

This is one of those cases where "ya had to be there" to appreciate how bad Carter was - and how refreshing the change was. .....
Reagan wasn't perfect by any stretch - but if you ask those who were adults when he was in the White House, most all would take him hands down over any President in our lifetimes.

Exactly right! I am 49 and even watched part of the Watergate hearings live as a youth.

 

[DragonGunner]

Wait, how was it his ban? I gave a great deal of attention to the movement of FOPA at the time. Republicans had been trying to get through the Democrat House for 6 years but they wouldn't give it a vote. In '86 there were enough signatures for a discharge petition and a vote was forced. In the wee hours of the morning the Democrats slipped in a poison pill, the MG freeze, and Charlie Rangel gaveled down a voice vote as "YEA" when it clearly was not. Reagan initially said he wouldn't sign with the ban attached, but was prevailed upon by pro-gun groups and the bill sponsors who said they would get it stripped out in conference, which didn't happen as the Dems packed the conference committee with anti-gunners. They then said that they could get it fixed in the next session, but the '86 election finished that hope. At the time I was pretty damned outraged by the freeze. However, as time went on I've come to see passing FOPA as the best thing to happen in the gun world in the post'68 years. It rolled back all the provisions that Dems are now trying to reinstate. Before FOPA you had to buy even a single case or primer through an FFL. I was paying $20 a box for 9mm FMJ in 1984 and there was a sale at a dealer for $12 a box and I bought all I could. Those were 1984 prices and people complain about prices today. Safe transit was written into law. Surplus rifles started to be importable for the first time since 1968. It was a gun bonanza. How does Reagan get blamed and get no credit, while the Democrats who pushed it and sneaked it into the bill get off free?

Well it was a ban because no new MG are being made and sold.....Thanks for giving some good info I did not know. Seems in a way it was a double edged sword. And I guess thats politics.... Reagan was good at give and take. I will shift some blame on the (D) in the future.