Voluntarily disarming at a gun show

[Kirk Freeman]

and if you don't trust them with a loaded gun at a gun show why do you trust them at a bar, a bank, or McDonald's?

Because the promoter is not paying for premise liability insurance at a bar, the bank or Mickey D's.

This isn't a matter of public policy. This is all non-government action.

If you were a promoter and read about the gun show shootings all over the country and saw with your own eyes the behavior on display at gun shows, would you not run out and shop insurance policies?

Whatever made the show profitable, probably

Then to protect yourself against people shooting themselves or others (or in the case of some shows both) you would have an insurance policy. One of the provisions of the policy would likely be no loaded guns at the gun show.

 

[Raskolnikov]

I understand the rule. It's the same as when you enter a gun shop. Most have a sign that reads, "No Loaded Weapons." It's their house, their rules. If, for some reason, I do not want a person carrying a loaded weapon into my house, it's my right. If the guest doesn't like it, he can leave. Whomever runs the gun show has the right to make rules. This is not an infringement of any right. This is much different than the City of Indianapolis, which prohibits carrying in city parks. This is wrong--I'm a taxpayer, and this is property of the taxpayers.

 

[Spike Jones 5 2002]

First Evaluation Beretta 92fs 9mm

I purchased the Beretta at Capella Friday Nov. 23, 2012.
I was looking to replace my Ruger P-95.
I like the P-95. The P-95 feels good in my hand. I rarely had a malfunction. The decocker and slide stop is very easy to manipulate. The magazine release is also easy to use.
I did need to replace the rear sight to a fully adjustable.
The P-95 is light and compact. A very good carry gun. It is smooth and easy to obtain. Using a Blackhawk Surpa holster it came out easy and smooth.
Problem when I am in a fireing course Everyone comments that the P-95 is not a quality firearm. I would do better with a better quality firearm.

While in Capbela’s. I seen the add for the Beretta 9mm.
I have never fired a Beretta. I will get a chance to fire my new Beretta at Kodiak Range Tuesday 11/27/2012.
I held it and liked the feel. Polymer lower and steel upper.
It is heavier than the P-95. It had a longer sight separation (better sight alinement).
The trigger pull is good.

Now Beretta is suppose to be most advance and up-to-date design.
Cabella’s not having a range to test fire. Now I am playing with it at home.

Major problems. The decocker, magazine release and side release are very small. With the decocker being small it is hard to operate. It feels stiff or catchs / binds as I operate. I do not want it slip into or out of position.
Yes I should have caught this at Cabella’s. (NO excuse) But salesman time and me needing to do more shopping. I did not spend the proper time checking it.
The P-95 just feel smooth as I operate.
The Beretta’s decocker is ambidextrous but again to small both sides. The slide and magazine release are not ambidextrous. The mag release is very tight.
Both being small it could just feel that way.
The magazine well is square. That makes it difficult to aline that magazine quickly.
On the right side, there is a very large button just over the trigger guard right at trigger finger tip. At first it could be mistaken for a safety. It is the release for the disassembly lever.
The barrel is 99% exposed for good cooling. When disassembled the trigger will operate the hammer. Good double action training without the weight of the receiver.
Pushing that large button on the right and turn the level down on left side. The slide assembly pulls forward easy.
Reassembly is just about as easy. You just have to slide the barrel in. A slight push more and push up on the level.
Maybe more after I fire it.

 

[dbrier]

What???

Part of it is for anti theft. If you get checked going out of the gun show, all your guns should have an orange zip-tie from coming in or a receipt from a vendor.
Granted, the checks going in and out are more voluntary than mandated...

 

[Indy60]

The first Indy gun show I attended as I was walking through the parking lot I wondered what were all the cut zip ties doing on the ground? Soon found out!

 

[JetGirl]

Jethro can't find or can't be bothered to wash under his nether-regions during his bimonthly hygiene maintenece program.

Do you think I should trust Jethro with his firearms being made safe?

It's likely that smelly Jethro isn't gonna tell you he's got a couple bugs...and not just the crawling kind.

 

[Raskolnikov]

The first Indy gun show I attended as I was walking through the parking lot I wondered what were all the cut zip ties doing on the ground? Soon found out!

Yep. Always keep a knife with you. There's no rule or anything illegal about loading your firearm once you have have exited the secure area!

 

[Indy60]

It's likely that smelly Jethro isn't gonna tell you he's got a couple bugs...and not just the crawling kind.

Those are just manly pickens, a snack betwee opposum sandwiches.

 

[oldschoolevo]

WELL IM ALL FOR IT INSIDE, BUT MY TRUCK HAS BEEN BROKE INTO AT THE INDY 1500 SHOW, SO I DONT UNLOAD UNTIL I GET TO THE DOOR, AND I RELOAD AS SOON AS I WALK OUT THE DOOR, CAUSE IM NOT GONNA HAVE A LONG WALK UP TO THE SHOW OR BACK OUT TO MY TRUCK.

 

[Indy60]

WELL IM ALL FOR IT INSIDE, BUT MY TRUCK HAS BEEN BROKE INTO AT THE INDY 1500 SHOW, SO I DONT UNLOAD UNTIL I GET TO THE DOOR, AND I RELOAD AS SOON AS I WALK OUT THE DOOR, CAUSE IM NOT GONNA HAVE A LONG WALK UP TO THE SHOW OR BACK OUT TO MY TRUCK.

Is this post for the hearing impaired?

 

[Spazzmodicus]

What happens when a felon, or a gang of felons determine that the easiest way to get firearms is a show of force at the gunhow? Do you really believe 100% of those inside are going to get caught off-guard and unprepared? There are always some who CC in such places, opposing well intentioned rules.

The majority of gun show participants and some sellers are as sharp as a butter knife when it comes to gun safety standards. The plastic ties and safety precautions make sense. But there is a difference between the firearms on the tables for sale, and the firearms in the holsters for defense. Maybe not that much difference between the two in the eyes of the promoter, but then again, there doesn't seem to be a great deal of emphasis placed on disarming any potential concealed carriers. If the gun is out and in your hand or in a case, put a tie on it. If not, shut-up, move on and enjoy the show.

 

[jontheturboguy]

What stays on my hip - STAYS ON MY HIP.

""Any fire arms?""

NOPE.

Some of you make me raf and raf and raf out rowd.

 

[bdybdall]

The next show you go to, take the first two hours to watch people as opposed to guns. Watch how they handle guns.

A good game to play would be:
I'll give you a dollar for every person you see gun handling with their finger off the trigger. You give me a dollar for every one handling a gun with their finger on the trigger. Wanna take a run at it?

I was at a 1500 about a year ago and saw a young man about 2 aisles over prodding his companion in the back with a shotgun. I tried to get to him but couldn't make it through the crowd. I'm not sure whether I wanted to give him some instruction or rip his head off. Probably a good thing I didn't reach him.

 

[jcwit]

With the attidude of many that wish to excerise their own rules I predict shortly there will be security entrance gates at gun shows. We will have only ourselves to blame.

 

[Spazzmodicus]

With the attidude of many that wish to excerise their own rules I predict shortly there will be security entrance gates at gun shows. We will have only ourselves to blame.

Why all of the sudden "shortly". This has been going on for years. Must be new news for you.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Why all of the sudden "shortly". This has been going on for years. Must be new news for you.

I think he meant like being wanded or going thru a metal detector.

 

[Spazzmodicus]

I think he meant like being wanded or going thru a metal detector.

Yes, I'm sure that's what he meant. But I wanted to know what prompted his reasoning to make a bold proclamation of "shortly". What's happened lately that will make all this happen shortly.

 

[KoopaKGB]

We're all pretty big on not disarming for anyone, anywhere... EXCEPT a gun show. Why do we voluntarily disarm at a gun show? When I go to one, I generally have a lot of cash with me. I'm parking and walking through what I normally consider unsecured areas. When I leave, I may or may not have a new gun purchase which has great street value - again, walking in an unsecured area. As opposed to when I go to Walmart - no cash, just a debit card that can be canceled.

Yes, we can carry our gun up to the entrance of the gun show and then have it unloaded with the plastic twistie thing put in it - but if we needed to use the gun while in the gun show area are we going to say "wait! I have to clip off this twistie thing and load my gun so I can eliminate the threat!"

It bothers me that the place that should be the safest (since there are 100's of gun owners) isn't. Bad guys aren't stupid... are we for disarming voluntarily?

How do you like this pot stir?!!

I understand what you're saying. I personally usually bring several hundred dollars in cash. And it would be pretty inconsistent to all of a sudden NOT have a gun on me AND be bringing that much money. I'm not saying I don't follow the rules about no loaded guns, but there are choices you can still make, to disregard the rule and CC, or I not attend. As others have said it is an insurance thing, they have to say no loaded weapons.

Whatever made the show profitable, probably. That would be my job as promoter, not enforcing my own particular ideals of the world.

I understand why. I'm not suggesting their aren't idiots at a gun show. I'm not suggesting their aren't criminals, the mentally ill, and the people who never had the chance to learn proper gun handling at gun shows. I'm suggesting that those are the exact same people that make up our society, and if you don't trust them with a loaded gun at a gun show why do you trust them at a bar, a bank, or McDonald's?

I also understand the rights of the property owner, but we see how many people on this board gleefully ignore those and make snide comments about "why don't they just outlaw crime?" After all, if I choose to carry an AK-47 into McDonald's its within my rights, and there's a contingent on this forum that would scream bloody murder if anyone bothered to question me on it, let alone refuse me service. Why can't I do the same at a gun show or shop?

I'm not saying you are one of those, I don't know and don't keep track of everyone's views here. I'm saying there's a logical disconnect in complaining about one business but accepting the exact same, if not worse, treatment at another just because its "gun oriented."

I understand what you're saying. I suggest you get some folks together to start your own gunshow and run it as you see fit and allow loaded guns. I really doubt you'd be able to get enough insurance to cover your butt when/after all the NDs that happen. Most of the time the places are really crowded, nut to butt. When I inspect a weapon that I'm interested in buying/trading I myself am forced to aim up into the ceiling because there simply is no safe place to aim the weapon and look down the signts, except the ceiling. There is no clearing barrel or sand trap to aim at. Then again the shows are also so large that if there were designated clearing barrels, I wouldn't want to walk all the way accross the venue just to aim the weapon. A lose lose situation.

I purchased the Beretta at Capella Friday Nov. 23, 2012.
I was looking to replace my Ruger P-95.
I like the P-95. The P-95 feels good in my hand. I rarely had a malfunction. The decocker and slide stop is very easy to manipulate. The magazine release is also easy to use.
I did need to replace the rear sight to a fully adjustable.
The P-95 is light and compact. A very good carry gun. It is smooth and easy to obtain. Using a Blackhawk Surpa holster it came out easy and smooth.
Problem when I am in a fireing course Everyone comments that the P-95 is not a quality firearm. I would do better with a better quality firearm.

While in Capbela’s. I seen the add for the Beretta 9mm.
I have never fired a Beretta. I will get a chance to fire my new Beretta at Kodiak Range Tuesday 11/27/2012.
I held it and liked the feel. Polymer lower and steel upper.
It is heavier than the P-95. It had a longer sight separation (better sight alinement).
The trigger pull is good.

Now Beretta is suppose to be most advance and up-to-date design.
Cabella’s not having a range to test fire. Now I am playing with it at home.

Major problems. The decocker, magazine release and side release are very small. With the decocker being small it is hard to operate. It feels stiff or catchs / binds as I operate. I do not want it slip into or out of position.
Yes I should have caught this at Cabella’s. (NO excuse) But salesman time and me needing to do more shopping. I did not spend the proper time checking it.
The P-95 just feel smooth as I operate.
The Beretta’s decocker is ambidextrous but again to small both sides. The slide and magazine release are not ambidextrous. The mag release is very tight.
Both being small it could just feel that way.
The magazine well is square. That makes it difficult to aline that magazine quickly.
On the right side, there is a very large button just over the trigger guard right at trigger finger tip. At first it could be mistaken for a safety. It is the release for the disassembly lever.
The barrel is 99% exposed for good cooling. When disassembled the trigger will operate the hammer. Good double action training without the weight of the receiver.
Pushing that large button on the right and turn the level down on left side. The slide assembly pulls forward easy.
Reassembly is just about as easy. You just have to slide the barrel in. A slight push more and push up on the level.
Maybe more after I fire it.

Please dont post any more without figuring out how to create threads first.

What happens when a felon, or a gang of felons determine that the easiest way to get firearms is a show of force at the gunhow? Do you really believe 100% of those inside are going to get caught off-guard and unprepared? There are always some who CC in such places, opposing well intentioned rules.

I hate to say this, but the gun show would have to relay on the protection of the police at the front of the show... Or all those folks that are breaking the rules and CCing.

With the attidude of many that wish to excerise their own rules I predict shortly there will be security entrance gates at gun shows. We will have only ourselves to blame.

Heres my prediction. Gun shows will be outlawed before then or else otherwise bastardized by requiring all firearms transfers to go thru FFL's.

 

[Hiker1911]

Because the promoter is not paying for premise liability insurance at a bar, the bank or Mickey D's.

This isn't a matter of public policy. This is all non-government action.

If you were a promoter and read about the gun show shootings all over the country and saw with your own eyes the behavior on display at gun shows, would you not run out and shop insurance policies?

Then to protect yourself against people shooting themselves or others (or in the case of some shows both) you would have an insurance policy. One of the provisions of the policy would likely be no loaded guns at the gun show.

The aim (no pun intended) is to reduce the chances of a firearm going boom, and it matters not if by accident or intention. Another purpose is to maximize profits through tickets & parking sales, or reducing expenses (insurance is one).

Whether a promoter would pay more for insurance by allowing LTC holders to carry concealed, or otherwise inside the building (preferably after producing their credentials) is unknown.

Speaking for myself, I would not want anyone carrying concealed at a show without a valid permit & a non-expired photo ID issued by Indiana or another state.

 

[jcwit]

Heres my prediction. Gun shows will be outlawed before then or else otherwise bastardized by requiring all firearms transfers to go thru FFL's

Very possible, but I personally think the other will happen first.

What is so wrong with obeying the rules and laws? But yes I realize attitudes have changed from when I was brought up and taught the ways of living.