VIDEO - Officers threatens to execute Ohio CCW holder

[IndyBeerman]

Officer Harless in his new job taking orders at Burger King:

"Hey, I saw you take extra ketchup! Don't lie to me! You did it! I'm about two seconds from smashing in your face, do you understand me? I'll ****ing take this apron off and strangle you with it and I won't lose any sleep over it either. My fellow cashier here will be a witness when I wrap this apron with the Burger King crown logo on it around your stupid neck and kill you with it! Damn, you people **** me off! You shouldn't even be allowed to wander around an esablishment that serves convenient food! You won't be doing that anymore, I'll tell you that. What's that in your hand? What do you mean 'Money to pay for the ketchup?' You're ****ing lying! You understand I want to smash your face with this spatula, right? Stupid people. I hate these ****ing extra ketchup eaters. If I see your girlfriend there with exra napkins she's gonna get some lumps."

-1 Burger King

 

[Aaronhome27]

I havent read all the post here (47 pages) on this but all I can say is WOW after watching the video. I do feel for other LEO's in this situation because to a very small point some will reflect this on to other LEO.

 

[thebishopp]

Even that reason is convoluted. So because you once had to struggle with a bigger perp every gun owner makes you go bat-**** crazy? That guy was PERFECTLY compliant. He never made one threatening word or gesture against either of those officers. I certainly would've put up a fuss about the do-nothing partner crawling around my back seat without my consent. There was nothing about once having to wrestle some big dude who was trying to get your gun that is in any way similar to a sheepish guy sitting in his car informing you, though not right off the bat, that he has a legally concealed handgun, which never left his side or was touched except by officer Jack Boot. If that one incident scarred him SO bad that any encounter with a legal carrier is going to trip his crazy trigger, he better find a new line of work.

Everyone has different "reasons" for doing things. From the outside looking in, some may regard others reasons as rational or irrational. DIfferent people can respond differently to similar circumstances.

So, based on what his alleged "buddy" posted, the "reason" that officer lost his head was because of a situation which apparently had traumatized him to such a degree that he is now prone to "losing it". Even in situations as we saw in the video where the threat level does not seem as high.

He may be overcompensating for his fears by being extremely aggressive or he may just be taking out his anger on that (and possibly other) citizens.

Does that mean he is not responsible for his actions?

No it does not.

It is merely the "reason" why he may have acted the way he did. This "reason" may help identify the problem as well as possible treatment for his condition. It may also encourage the department to keep a closer eye on other individuals who experience the same or similar traumas to avoid future problem of this nature (or worse).

This is of course separate from what the consequences (ie; punishment) for his unacceptable actions in this circumstance. There must be a consequence.

Again, that is the difference between a "reason" and an "excuse".

 

[Scutter01]

Do you realize that some of your statements are in line with a lot of people that have earned the "cop basher" label?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I agree with nearly everything Scutter has said in this thread... but it seems to me I've seen the "basher" label thrown around for similar statements referring to "closing ranks".

It certainly speaks to how combustible these issues are becoming.

Another agreement. I don't think it's wrong, per se... Scutter is entitled to his opinions and I would not personally classify his comments as "cop bashing..." but yeah. I noticed that too.

We love ya, Scutter

I have worked VERY hard to stay as neutral as I can in the pro/anti-cop fights on INGO because I have a responsibility as a moderator here. I've taken an unbelievable amount of grief as a result, as I am right now from the three people quoted above (as gentle and as polite as they're being). I've had members of both sides (both cop-bashers AND cops) physically threaten both me and members of my family because I wasn't 100% on their side, or because I didn't spank the other side in the way they felt I should. I think I'm MORE than entitled to a little leeway in stating my opinion and I'll not apologize for it.

Just to level the field and show you that I get it from both sides, I'm now taking crap from at least two cops, both of which have now claimed that they've quit the board as a result of me publicly condemning that criminal officer.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Just to level the field and show you that I get it from both sides, I'm now taking crap from at least two cops, both of which have now claimed that they've quit the board as a result of me publicly condemning that criminal officer.

Hate to say it but it sounds like they have definitely chosen their sides then if they cannot see things from our point of view at all.

 

[henktermaat]

Just to level the field and show you that I get it from both sides, I'm now taking crap from at least two cops, both of which have now claimed that they've quit the board as a result of me publicly condemning that criminal officer.

There you have it. Someone tell me what I'm supposed to think about cops now...

 

[serpicostraight]

if 2 cops are butt hurt and want to defend that piece of trash i hope they do leave. the fewer jbts around here the better.

 

[Scutter01]

Please close/lock/delete/whatever my account. If this site is going to continue to allow blatant anti-cop generalization by members, including a certain moderator, I don't want to be a part of it any more.

I'm sorry that one of your brothers has done something so heinous that I can no longer trust any cop. I'm sorry that I'm not allowed to have an opinion of my own. I'm sorry I protected cops and stood up for you for three years here on INGO. I'm sorry you bailed on me when people started calling me "traitor" and "ass-kisser" and threatened me when I stood up for you and I needed your support the most. You vanished completely when I needed you to back me up, and still I stood up for you. And now that you're doing it again, I'm not even slightly surprised. Have you ever called ME "brother"? No? I didn't think so. I'm sorry I ever trusted you.

 

[Bunnykid68]

There you have it. Someone tell me what I'm supposed to think about cops now...

Trust no one until you have a reason too.

 

[jsharmon7]

Just to level the field and show you that I get it from both sides, I'm now taking crap from at least two cops, both of which have now claimed that they've quit the board as a result of me publicly condemning that criminal officer.

I feel like I should be surprised that grown adults would threaten you or your family over opinions expressed on the internet, but I'm really not. As far as people staying or going, we all have to draw our line in the sand as to when we don't feel welcomed somewhere.

By the way, this was directed at the quote about people threatening you. I'm not assuming that the two you're referring to threatened you.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Scutter I am in complete agreement with you. I have watched numerous times you trying to keep the bashing to a minimum. The officers here and there or wherever need to understand if only 1 in 10 cops are bad we have no idea how to tell which one is the bad one.

 

[goinggreyfast]

Just to level the field and show you that I get it from both sides, I'm now taking crap from at least two cops, both of which have now claimed that they've quit the board as a result of me publicly condemning that criminal officer.

Before they left, did you tell them that you OC too???

Seriously, sorry that happened. Sometimes we must choose the mountain we will die on. The choices we make today are the realities we live with tomorrow. While there are quite a few good cops on this site, there must be some who choose to side with jerks like the one in this video. Hang tough and don't sweat it man.

 

[techres]

Oh, boy. It is a shame too.

Ages ago I started a group for Jews & Muslims to come together, read sacred texts and get to know one another. We studied, worked through some differences and shared food. It was hard, hard work but I hoped that if we could cement relationships when times were good, then maybe we had a chance to be useful bridges when times were bad.

Then came the 2nd intefatah in Israel (or "The Situation" as most of us called it). Within two days the group was in shambles and even the two leaders could not have useful conversations. We talked right past each other and could not make any sense of the other since the situation so was just "so friggin obvious" (just we saw it in opposite directions).

What was the use? Well, in the end there were a two or three who were able to keep the conversation going. In that remnant there was value. In the rest, nothing.

Was it worth the initial effort? I still don't know. Likely yes.

Scutter, I feel your pain, frustration, and other emotions. What is left is to count the good ones, hold to what you know is right, and move on.

 

[dross]

Where are all these generalizations? I haven't seen any. I've said on this thread and many others, I believe that cops like this particular idiot are probably the minority. Two problems, one I've been harping on, and one Scutter has been pointing out.

My main point is that a lot of cops who don't act like this jerk MUST be looking the other way, as this guy's partner did. Logic dictates that it's being put up with, or it wouldn't be happening.

The point Scutter keeps making is not a generalization, it is the absolutely logical point of view that since we can't tell the idiot cops from the good ones, ALL must be treated with extreme caution and mistrust. It only takes one bad one. Cops will say quite openly that they must treat each citizen with mistrust because they don't know who the bad guys are, even - as many here have said - if they have a permit for a handgun, which tells the cop at least that they were law-abiding up to the point of issue.

Every encounter with a cop is a potential life-changing situation, even more so when jerks like this are around. If I could count on the good cops putting a stop the abuse I might not be so cautious, but again, the evidence is clear that the other cops on the scene ARE GOING TO STAND BACK AND LET THE BAD COP DO HIS THING. And, the evidence shows that many times they're going to lie and say I resisted or caused the whole thing.

I would have to be completely stupid to trust a cop I don't know. Get rid of the bad ones and I predict your hurt feelings will go away, too.

If your loyalty is more to a bad cop because he wears blue than it is to a citizen you're sworn to protect, YOU ARE ONE OF THE BAD ONES.

Read it closely, officers. No generalizations.

 

[RichardR]

Just to level the field and show you that I get it from both sides, I'm now taking crap from at least two cops, both of which have now claimed that they've quit the board as a result of me publicly condemning that criminal officer.

IMHO that says an awful lot about those two individuals.

If your loyalty is more to a bad cop because he wears blue than it is to a citizen you're sworn to protect, YOU ARE ONE OF THE BAD ONES.

Agreed.

 

[henktermaat]

I'll make generalizations is I damn well please.

The problem isn't "generalizations," but the thugs in uniform and the others who look the other way.

THAT, my friends, is the problem, NOT what I or anyone else thinks or says.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Wow. I've never seen this side of you, Scutter. I'm impressed. I'd rep you if you hadn't disabled it.

Here's what it boils down to, to me. The cops have refused to clean their own house, so now it's dash cams and cell phones and Youtube that will see it gets done.

Imagine what was going on when there was no video record if these guys will do these things knowing they can be recorded. I can't even imagine what was happening when they KNEW it was their word against whoever's butt they wanted to whoop.

FYI: You can still rep someone who has disabled it... that just means they aren't showing their badges and pips.

Also... Everyone is talking about retraining that officers need. I'm trying to not be the pessimist that thinks the retraining will amount to, "If you're going to knock heads on these wannabe cowboys, for God's sake, don't do it on camera!"

I really hope I'm wrong.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Delmar]

Just to level the field and show you that I get it from both sides, I'm now taking crap from at least two cops, both of which have now claimed that they've quit the board as a result of me publicly condemning that criminal officer.

I sure am sorry to hear that! I don't understand why a good cop would be upset by people speaking ill of bad cops

 

[Scutter01]

Apparently, I'm not allowed to be offended that a cop has threatened to execute a driver who had the nerve to be legally carrying a handgun. A driver who, by definition, had no criminal background (since he had been issued his CCW permit only a month prior). I'm not allowed to have my faith in the police shaken as a result. I am required to remain true to my belief that I can trust all cops everywhere at all times and to publicly state so at every conceivable opportunity.

I'm being widely accused, both publicly and privately, of making the same sweeping anti-cop generalizations that I have spent the better part of three years (and gallons of blood, sweat, and tears) trying to put a stop to. I'm making a public call for ANYONE to find where I have made an anti-cop generalization of my own. If you can find one, I will publicly retract the statement and apologize for it. No backpedaling, no trying to spin it. I will own the comment and apologize. I don't think you'll find one that you can honestly claim is a "broad generalization that all cops are bad". At MOST you'll be able to find ones where I've said "I have to assume they're bad for my own safety", which is not anywhere near like the same thing.

 

[SirRealism]

Just to level the field and show you that I get it from both sides, I'm now taking crap from at least two cops, both of which have now claimed that they've quit the board as a result of me publicly condemning that criminal officer.

I'm not quite sure why you thought I was giving you crap. I had noticed in the past that the label "anti-cop" and "basher" were thrown around unfairly by others... as they have been now.

If I thought you were "anti-cop" (i.e. hating all cops without reason), I wouldn't have said I agree with you.

Perhaps I didn't word it well, but I guess I just think a lot of good people have walked on egg shells around here on these issues. I'm glad to hear you speak your mind. Frankly, it's hard to imagine much room for disagreement on this case.