Video of cop shooting unarmed man released

[lashicoN]

If the kid had put his hands out or up....wouldn't he have lost balance on the bike?

I don't know about losing balance, because he had his feet down, but this cop came out ready to shoot. Why? Because the guy accelerated too quickly. I wonder if he even topped the speed limit. I do that a lot too. I don't *****foot it up to 40, sometimes I just floor it, it gives the appearance from a stopped car behind me that I'm flying, but I never go past the posted speed limit. My point here is that if the cop ran out of his car with his gun drawn (approaching a guy who pulled over, not the guy who lost control of his bike or was trying to flee, forget his friend, he has nothing to do with this) then if the bike rider threw his arms up, he still would have probably been shot. It looks like this guy had an itchy finger and didn't like how fast they pulled away. There is a country road right by my house that has 50MPH as the posted limit.

Thanks for the nep rep Samot. Good times! Listen, all I was trying to convey was this. The two kids were behaving recklessly. They put themselves into that situation, and he is unfortunately now reaping the consequences of his actions. He chose to behave like a jackass at night, and when pulled over did not comply with the officer's orders. Keep in mind that his friend was EVADING. That would cause big questions in my mind right then and there---why did his friend run? Why isn't he putting his hands up? Why is his right hand moving at his waist line? Review it closely. If it appears clear that he is making a movement from straight behind that could be construed as drawing a firearm, then how would it look from the side? It doesn't matter if he could get off an "accurate shot". Keep in mind that there was an officer in front of him as well. I will concede that perhaps the officer was a bit quick on the trigger, but he reacted as I would expect any officer to when confronted with the situation. I understand my stance is not popular on this issue, but I stand by it.

Huh...so if you behave like a jackass (accelerate quickly) and don't put your hands up as soon as you get pulled over, you get shot. If that's really the law of the land, perhaps it really is time I move to Canada, as a few INGO members have recently suggested I do. I think putting your hands up immediately looks criminal, because you know you just did something wrong. I probably would have done exactly what this guy did, become stunned that a cop was running out of his car, screaming at me with his gun pointed at me, while my friend's bike was riding circles all over the place. Consider that situation for a moment. How often does that happen to you on a nightly basis?

Both times I've been pulled over a cop approached my car from the left AND right. I know this isn't the case in this video, but perhaps he was checking for a second officer who wasn't there. But, maybes don't matter much to me, because that's all they ever are, maybe.

For everyone who is having a hard time deciding if it was a justified shoot, consider this. The guy pulled over in a timely manner, didn't get off his bike, didn't act excited, and DIDN'T HAVE A GUN. I don't know what's going on around here with all the speculation, but it doesn't matter what he was doing with his right hand, because he didn't have a gun. Did he have bullets with him? Yes...well...after the cop put one in his back.

Hindsight, of course, is 20/20 and it's a lot easier for me to say, after the fact, that he didn't have a gun. Did the officer know that? No. Did he handle the situation in a professional way? No. Was it a justified shoot? In the end, no, there was no gun. Plain and simple, you can't just go around shooting people who don't put their hands up.

 

[Houdinih]

Wow! Looks like a trigger happy cop. The rider wouldn't turn to the left because there is a bright spotlight in your eyes. I know how that is from experience. The other rider should have been the one to be hostile with for trying to run and look like a dumbass. It would be hard to hear with the siren blairing. The shootee doesn't run or make any agressive movement. He sits on his bike and never leads with his thumb and index finger for nothing. Bad cop no donut! Maybe he thought they were part of the notorious Hells Angels. Sorry I ran out of purple ink.

 

[PatriotPride]

I don't know about losing balance, because he had his feet down, but this cop came out ready to shoot. Why? Because the guy accelerated too quickly. I wonder if he even topped the speed limit. I do that a lot too. I don't *****foot it up to 40, sometimes I just floor it, it gives the appearance from a stopped car behind me that I'm flying, but I never go past the posted speed limit. My point here is that if the cop ran out of his car with his gun drawn (approaching a guy who pulled over, not the guy who lost control of his bike or was trying to flee, forget his friend, he has nothing to do with this) It looks like this guy had an itchy finger and didn't like how fast they pulled away. There is a country road right by my house that has 50MPH as the posted limit.



Huh...so if you behave like a jackass (accelerate quickly) and don't put your hands up as soon as you get pulled over, you get shot. If that's really the law of the land, perhaps it really is time I move to Canada, as a few INGO members have recently suggested I do. I think putting your hands up immediately looks criminal, because you know you just did something wrong. I probably would have done exactly what this guy did, become stunned that a cop was running out of his car, screaming at me with his gun pointed at me, while my friend's bike was riding circles all over the place. Consider that situation for a moment. How often does that happen to you on a nightly basis?

Both times I've been pulled over a cop approached my car from the left AND right. I know this isn't the case in this video, but perhaps he was checking for a second officer who wasn't there. But, maybes don't matter much to me, because that's all they ever are, maybe.

For everyone who is having a hard time deciding if it was a justified shoot, consider this. The guy pulled over in a timely manner, didn't get off his bike, didn't act excited, and DIDN'T HAVE A GUN. I don't know what's going on around here with all the speculation, but it doesn't matter what he was doing with his right hand, because he didn't have a gun. Did he have bullets with him? Yes...well...after the cop put one in his back.

Hindsight, of course, is 20/20 and it's a lot easier for me to say, after the fact, that he didn't have a gun. Did the officer know that? No. Did he handle the situation in a professional way? No. Was it a justified shoot? In the end, no, there was no gun. Plain and simple, you can't just go around shooting people who don't put their hands up.

So he didn't have a gun. I understand that. The fact remains that he did NOT comply with the officer's directions, and gave the officer justifiable use of force. He did NOT put his hands up. Some have suggested he was reaching for his wallet. He may have been. If that was the case, then he was wrong to do so. The officer gave him clear and concise directions on what to do: Put your hands up. There it is. Not "hand me your wallet with your right hand slowly". He gave the appearance of drawing a weapon, and the officer responded accordingly. In all likelihood, he froze up and developed tunnel vision. It's unfortunate that this was the outcome. As far as "thinking that putting your hands up makes you look like a criminal", IT'S IRRELEVANT. You do EXACTLY what the officer says WHEN he says it so you don't get shot. If you are not guilty then you are not guilty. Put your hands up and present a safe enviroment for the responding officer(s) and yourself. As far as "we don't know how fast they were going, I have a country road that has a 50MPH speed limit", again, IT'S IRRELEVANT. Please provide your evidence as to "then if the bike rider threw his arms up, he still would have probably been shot."

Thanks for the comment Ranger I say what I mean and stand by it.

 

[JBusch8899]

... I would say that the officer was not "provoked" to do so, but I can also see how the officer mistook his actions as threatening.

Your analysis is probably the most reasonable. It implies that overall, a number of factors are in consideration leading to, and during the incident, and both parties were at least partially at fault for the officer drawing his weapon and firing.

After reviewing the video, what remains:

1. Given the suspect's actions, and inactions for that matter; does it meet a level of behavior to the officer to articulate clear and present danger?

2. Is the officer discharging his weapon, reasonable for someone of his training, history, and experience?

As such, I don't believe that reviewing the videotape alone, is enough to determine this man's guilt or innocence of the charges levied against him. If it were, why have the trial? Not to flame those who have speculated upon the LEO's actions based upon the video alone, but if there is one thing that I've learned in life, is that the adage, "There's more here that meets the eye.", very often is a true statement.

Let's reserve our condemnations, as well as our respective justifications, at least until the verdict is rendered.

 

[E5RANGER375]

So he didn't have a gun. I understand that. The fact remains that he did NOT comply with the officer's directions, and gave the officer justifiable use of force. He did NOT put his hands up. Some have suggested he was reaching for his wallet. He may have been. If that was the case, then he was wrong to do so. The officer gave him clear and concise directions on what to do: Put your hands up. There it is. Not "hand me your wallet with your right hand slowly". He gave the appearance of drawing a weapon, and the officer responded accordingly. In all likelihood, he froze up and developed tunnel vision. It's unfortunate that this was the outcome. As far as "thinking that putting your hands up makes you look like a criminal", IT'S IRRELEVANT. You do EXACTLY what the officer says WHEN he says it so you don't get shot. If you are not guilty then you are not guilty. Put your hands up and present a safe enviroment for the responding officer(s) and yourself. As far as "we don't know how fast they were going, I have a country road that has a 50MPH speed limit", again, IT'S IRRELEVANT. Please provide your evidence as to "then if the bike rider threw his arms up, he still would have probably been shot."

Thanks for the comment Ranger I say what I mean and stand by it.

i dont have to do anything an officer tells me if i dont want to! it doesnt earn me the right to be shot. now if he places me under arrest then i must comply or face additional charges (still not death or paralysis). for the record im not saying i wouldnt comply with a officers RESONABLE REQUEST! if they tell me to go face down just for carrying a pistol, then they can pound sand, and if they touch me it will be on like donkey kong in court.

I love to see when bad cops get prosecuted!! because it shhows the system works in some places still. and it also makes all the other few dirty cops think twice before they act. the problem is, their dirty ways are so ingrained into them that it would take a lifetime to recondition them.

 

[smoking357]

Huh...so if you behave like a jackass (accelerate quickly) and don't put your hands up as soon as you get pulled over, you get shot. If that's really the law of the land, perhaps it really is time I move to Canada, as a few INGO members have recently suggested I do.

Don't let the Liberals buffalo you.

For everyone who is having a hard time deciding if it was a justified shoot, consider this. The guy pulled over in a timely manner, didn't get off his bike, didn't act excited, and DIDN'T HAVE A GUN. I don't know what's going on around here with all the speculation, but it doesn't matter what he was doing with his right hand, because he didn't have a gun. Did he have bullets with him? Yes...well...after the cop put one in his back.

If the bar for getting killed by the government is this low, we really have become a police state. All the gun owners are bleating about the harms Obama may cause, while some of the worst crimes a government has ever committed on its citizens are occurring, daily, while gun owners fall over themselves supporting the ones committing the crimes against Liberty.

Hindsight, of course, is 20/20 and it's a lot easier for me to say, after the fact, that he didn't have a gun. Did the officer know that? No. Did he handle the situation in a professional way? No. Was it a justified shoot? In the end, no, there was no gun. Plain and simple, you can't just go around shooting people who don't put their hands up.

You can in America.

But, "they hate us for our freedom." Are we really so confused that we believe this?

 

[smoking357]

I love to see when bad cops get prosecuted!!

And I'd love to see gas be 5 cents. <- That will occur first.

 

[femurphy77]

Watched the video several times, the biker is motionless at the point the leo utters something, sounded like "put your hands up" then a shot and the biker hits the ground.

The biker had turned slightly right and stopped moving then leo says put your hands up and almost immediately fired. I saw no motion from the biker between put your hands up and the shot being fired. Trigger happy!

And just so it doesn't appear I'm anti cop, the girlfriends son-in-law is a cop, nice guy too!

 

[smoking357]

So he didn't have a gun. I understand that. The fact remains that he did NOT comply with the officer's directions, and gave the officer justifiable use of force. He did NOT put his hands up.

If disobeying a cop gets you shot, the experiment of having police has failed. We need to fire them all and try something new.

 

[JBusch8899]

i dont have to do anything an officer tells me if i dont want to! it doesnt earn me the right to be shot. now if he places me under arrest then i must comply or face additional charges (still not death or paralysis). for the record im not saying i wouldnt comply with a officers RESONABLE REQUEST! if they tell me to go face down just for carrying a pistol, then they can pound sand, and if they touch me it will be on like donkey kong in court.

I love to see when bad cops get prosecuted!! because it shhows the system works in some places still. and it also makes all the other few dirty cops think twice before they act. the problem is, their dirty ways are so ingrained into them that it would take a lifetime to recondition them.

Ever hear of a Terry stop? That is not a reasonable request, or being placed under arrest: Its an order. An order that you best comply, lest you might be shot.

We don't know if this cop is a "dirty" or "bad" cop. Even good cops occasionally make mistakes, or are put in highly controversial situations, to make split second decisions based upon inadequate information. Prosecuting these individuals is sometimes necessary to determine their guilt (note I didn't say "guilt or innocence"), but you are correct that it does give pause to not only cops, but any number of other people, that the law may catch up with them eventually.

 

[buffalo-springfield40]

been stopped many times by porter county leos....1st thing they say is keep your hands on the bars.....they always have their guns drawn....i pray .at my advancing age...i hear the leo the 1st time..cause by the look of this..he will not give you a second.....this cop should never be let out agian...i smell lawsuit...[and bacon]

 

[Cat-Herder]

bad shoot. trigger-happy cop. mccloskey dared to offend one of the untouchables. i hope white gets touched long-time in prison.

 

[IndyBeerman]

Thanks for the nep rep Samot. Good times! Listen, all I was trying to convey was this. The two kids were behaving recklessly. They put themselves into that situation, and he is unfortunately now reaping the consequences of his actions. He chose to behave like a jackass at night, and when pulled over did not comply with the officer's orders. Keep in mind that his friend was EVADING. That would cause big questions in my mind right then and there---why did his friend run? Why isn't he putting his hands up? Why is his right hand moving at his waist line? Review it closely. If it appears clear that he is making a movement from straight behind that could be construed as drawing a firearm, then how would it look from the side? It doesn't matter if he could get off an "accurate shot". Keep in mind that there was an officer in front of him as well. I will concede that perhaps the officer was a bit quick on the trigger, but he reacted as I would expect any officer to when confronted with the situation.I understand my stance is not popular on this issue, but I stand by it.

I stand by my stance also.

From the time they left the stop sign to them stopping it was almost 20 seconds, and I think the only reason they did stop was the second car coming from the other direction. I know immediately when I have an officer behind me when the disco lights are on. This right here is an attempt to flee, officer must presume that it is because there is a warrant out for them or because of drugs or weapons.

The biker then could have avoided being shot if he would have just have left his hands on the bars and listened to the officers commands instead of making that move to the right the way he did. Plain and simple.

This entire sequence of events falls solely upon the bikers because of:

1. Rapid acceleration (unsafe start) Biker on the left even breaks rear traction shifting from 1st to second.

2. Fleeing, they had more than enough time to realize there was an officer behind them and continued.

3. He should have turned off the bike, left his hands on the bars and obeyed the officers commands and NOT make a move that could be construed as reaching for a weapon. I don't care what you say, in my eyes it still looks that way and you can see that in the capture I posted, the hand stops and does not continue reaching around like if he was reaching for a wallet.

 

[JBusch8899]

I sincerely hope that the expert litigators of the INGO Bar Association posting in this thread, never suffer the misfortunes of either of the parties in this unfortunate situation.

 

[PatriotPride]

IndyBeerman, I agree with you here. That's the point I'm trying to make. It should be irrelevant at this point if the biker had a weapon or not. He did everything to give the appearance that he did and created reasonable suspicion in the mind of the shooting officer. Something to put into perspective: if the biker had had a weapon and drew it and injured or killed the officer, we'd now be debating why he didn't fire faster and recognize that the biker was drawing a firearm. We'd be saying that he had poor training and should have been more aware. This officer acted instantly when he percieved a threat. In this case, the biker didn't have a weapon, but I stand by my position that the shooting was justified.

I'd like to hear any LEO's input here. If you have time or feel so inclined, please PM me your opinion on the matter.

 

[buffalo-springfield40]

I stand by my stance also.

From the time they left the stop sign to them stopping it was almost 20 seconds, and I think the only reason they did stop was the second car coming from the other direction. I know immediately when I have an officer behind me when the disco lights are on. This right here is an attempt to flee, officer must presume that it is because there is a warrant out for them or because of drugs or weapons.

The biker then could have avoided being shot if he would have just have left his hands on the bars and listened to the officers commands instead of making that move to the right the way he did. Plain and simple.

This entire sequence of events falls solely upon the bikers because of:

1. Rapid acceleration (unsafe start) Biker on the left even breaks rear traction shifting from 1st to second.

2. Fleeing, they had more than enough time to realize there was an officer behind them and continued.

3. He should have turned off the bike, left his hands on the bars and obeyed the officers commands and NOT make a move that could be construed as reaching for a weapon. I don't care what you say, in my eyes it still looks that way and you can see that in the capture I posted, the hand stops and does not continue reaching around like if he was reaching for a wallet.

if you are right..then why is OJ still breathing?....

 

[HICKMAN]

I won't say good or bad shoot, feel sorry for the officer for making a mistake while fearing for his own life.

The lawyer in the video said the biker pulled or drew his arm back, which is not true.

Biker turned his head to the right, which brought his shoulders and elbows back that way. Even if the guy was going to draw, he would still have to swivel WAY past what his body would be able to do to aim at the officer.

They also said the officer told him to get his hands up, which would probably be very hard to hear with the sirens blaring from what, seven feet away?

He had raised his right hand and looked back over his right shoulder before they got out of the car, then looked back at his buddy who hit the curb. Left hand still on the clutch.

Tough one for the jury and both families.

 

[JBusch8899]

if you are right..then why is OJ still breathing?....

Nationally televised, real time news coverage of the slow moving Ford Bronco chase.

That, and the best legal defense that money could buy.

 

[CountryBoy19]

1. Rapid acceleration (unsafe start) Biker on the left even breaks rear traction shifting from 1st to second.

2. Fleeing, they had more than enough time to realize there was an officer behind them and continued.

3. He should have turned off the bike, left his hands on the bars and obeyed the officers commands and NOT make a move that could be construed as reaching for a weapon. I don't care what you say, in my eyes it still looks that way and you can see that in the capture I posted, the hand stops and does not continue reaching around like if he was reaching for a wallet.

Ok, I watched the video more closely again...

My response to your above posted points:
1. Rapidly accelerating is a reason to be shot?
2. I don't think so. By the time he hit his lights they were a half a block away and travelling pretty quickly. Driver one lost control while attempting to stop and driver 2 did stop. Fleeing? you're stretching it...
3. After very closely analyzing what happens, you can see that the rider put his hand on his hip/thigh area and turned to look over his right shoulder at the officer. After turning to look back forward he doesn't make a single movement until the officer yells to put his hands up. At that point it appears that the only movement he made was to look at the officer as if he did not understand what the officer said and was only turning to look at him.

IMHO, the officer was trigger happy... and it was a bad shoot.

My speculation: with the sirens (have you ever had sirens blaring right behind you? they're loud, very loud) obscured the directions that the officer was giving to the rider and he was simply turning around to better understand what the officer was saying...

I really do think this officer is guilty... I'm sorry to say it, I always advocate a fair trial and rarely pass judgement until all the facts are known, but in this case it's just so clear. If it wasn't clear I think the prosecutor would have erred on the side if giving him the benefit of the doubt and wouldn't have prosecuted him. They're obviously prosecuting for a reason... because he is clearly guilty and a fair trial is just a "formality" to be fair to him. In the end, we'll just have to wait to see what the jury says.

 

[Eddie]

Looks like the jury has the case now so we'll know soon.

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