Unsatisfactory experience at Point Blank in Greenwood

[IndyDave1776]

Let's see...

I fully support property rights, and the right of a provider to impose whatever lawful rules he/she/they/it may deem proper.

Accepting payment for the use of a facility and then introducing new terms effectively defeating the purpose for going to the range after accepting payment and having paperwork signed is not acceptable.

I will NOT be going to Point Blank, ever, because I don't pay my money to jackasses with the exceptions of government agencies and regulated monopolies that I can't evade.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I don't feel like I should prove that I legally own something to someone who has no legal interest in the matter. Similar to them running a serial number check on every gun to ensure they aren't stolen.

 

[PaulF]

I don't feel like I should prove that I legally own something to someone who has no legal interest in the matter. Similar to them running a serial number check on every gun to ensure they aren't stolen.

Dang, VUPD...I don't see the problem.

Take your tax stamp. It proves that you own the items legally.

Don't forget your birth certificate, you don't want them to think you are an "undocumented migrant".

...And the kids' papers...you might be a kidnapper.

Also might want to take your voter registration, you know...to rule out any political objections they might have.

A note from your mom wouldn't hurt...

 

[hopper68]

So far, I've heard:
"it's a private tax document"
"I don't have to show it to anyone but an ATF agent"
"It wasn't a requirement of my rental contract"
"if they aren't checking for legality on anything else, why only this"

So other than the butthurt over the principle of it being unnecessary, and looking at page 1 of Form4, I still don't see why anyone would have a problem showing a piece of paper with any additional personal info from what you already provided. Who's going to be first to complain about having to show a DL to check-in? We all seem to be perfectly fine with that requirement, but the sky is falling when they ask to see your ATF doc. I find that to be quite contradicting.

I agree, it is a silly tax document but a DL is an unfair comparison. So to prove you have no problem sharing silly tax documents please post your last 5 years tax returns.

 

[T.Lex]

I don't feel like I should prove that I legally own something to someone who has no legal interest in the matter. Similar to them running a serial number check on every gun to ensure they aren't stolen.

I think it is within the spectrum of reasonable responses to decline (hopefully politely) to show the proof of ownership. I have no issue with that. Under the right/wrong circumstances, I might do that, too. Mostly, though, particularly if asked politely, I would not have an issue with presenting it. It is not among those personal documents that I consider confidential.

As to your second point, the question will be (basically - totally paraphrasing), "Did the range operator act reasonably?"

Let's say someone manufactured a full auto sear and took it to some random range - let's just call it Don's Range for this hypothetical - and shot up a kid. Kid's family sues illegal dude and Don's Range (again, a totally random name). Don's Range says it had a "Don't ask, Don't tell" policy about NFA items and assumed all gun owners were responsible INGOers.

If you were operating Don's Range, would you be more comfortable with DADT or would you rather be able to look at the jurors and explain how you checked for proper ownership?

 

[JollyMon]

Lets get back to the more important information.... how fun is it shooting the cz scorpion evo SBR? I only have a few more days (hopefully) until my MPX gets approved (hopefully), but I can imagine they will be equally as fun.

 

[Dead Duck]

At my outdoor range, I was asked by a deputy (he was shooting) if my SBR and suppressor had stamps. When I told him "Ya Duh", he then asked if he could shoot them. So we shot together for the rest of the afternoon. He got more of a kick when my 9yr old daughter innocently offered him some of her donuts. His smile got even bigger than shooting my gun.
So Cliche!










Bottom Line -
Point Blank will no longer be getting any of my money........EVER.

Asking me to show them my tax stamp is like - Accusing me of committing a federal felony. They should NOT be OK with that.
I will be letting Point Blank know how much I am not OK with that.

-Might as well walk me through a metal detector at gunpoint.
-Slide my weapons into the slot so they can check if they're stolen.
-Take my keys too to run my car's vin and registration.
-Better also do a background on me just to make sure I'm clean.
-Take some blood just in case.
-While there, lets pee in the cup.
-Check my daughters hymen.
-Spit in a petri.
-Register my genes.
-Blow in the straw.
-Take my fingerprints.
-Do an eye scan.
-Check my ferrets hymen.
-Do a colonoscopy.
-Smog test my car.
-Whack in the jar.
-Verify my birth certificate.
-Track my GPS.
-Ask me my gender preference.
-Download my cell.
-Test my hair.
-Pull my finger.

How about- NO.

 

[T.Lex]

Asking me to show them my tax stamp is like - Accusing me of committing a federal felony. They should NOT be OK with that.
I will be letting Point Blank know how much I am not OK with that.

-Might as well walk me through a metal detector at gunpoint.
-Slide my weapons into the slot so they can check if they're stolen.
-Take my keys too to run my car's vin and registration.
-Better also do a background on me just to make sure I'm clean.
-Take some blood just in case.
-While there, lets pee in the cup.
-Check my daughters hymen.
-Spit in a petri.
-Register my genes.
-Blow in the straw.
-Take my fingerprints.
-Do an eye scan.
-Check my ferrets hymen.
-Do a colonoscopy.
-Smog test my car.
-Whack in the jar.
-Verify my birth certificate.
-Track my GPS.
-Ask me my gender preference.
-Download my cell.
-Test my hair.
-Pull my finger.

How about- NO.

Well, in fairness, a couple of those are considered "premium services" that cost extra.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I've never shot like that. I wonder how terrible the results would be.

I don't know if they will ever hit anything, at least intentionally, but their nuts shouldn't itch.

 

[printcraft]

You leave the ferrerts out of this.

 

[JollyMon]

I don't feel like I should prove that I legally own something to someone who has no legal interest in the matter. Similar to them running a serial number check on every gun to ensure they aren't stolen.

I also dont feel I should be required to submit proof that I am a proper person everytime I want to take a training class, like 90% of of the classes require.

 

[Trigger Time]

That's exactly how I understand it. I must make it available to ATF peeps only. It doesn't have to shield me from anyone else. If the document in question here was, say, my LTCH, I wouldn't be showing that either. It's nobody's business. I don't need the government to shield me from anything, I regularly wear my big boy panties.


And if I was shooting on private property and a PoPo came up with some BS suspicion of illegal activity ruse, I'd tell him to pound all the sand.

We're on the same page

 

[Dead Duck]

We're on the same page

Well actually, his post is on page 6 and yours is on page 8.

At least you two are on the same thread.

 

[ajeandy]

"ATF recommends" is not legally binding. And IMHO, throwing a suppressor in a range bag, taking to the range, and then back home, is not "transporting". You're simply using it. Travel (e.g. via plane, and/or inter-state)? Sure. Take a copy with you.

[h=1]transport[/h]
[h=3][/h]
[verb trans-pawrt, -pohrt; noun trans-pawrt, -pohrt]
Spell Syllables

• Synonyms
• Examples
• Word Origin

verb (used with object)1.to carry, move, or convey from one place to another.

 

[ajeandy]

I'm pretty sure that the whole problem with the scenario is that the policy was not stated to VUPDBlue in advance of paying for range time. That's it.

Would you like to build a snowman?

 

[actaeon277]

I don't feel like I should prove that I legally own something to someone who has no legal interest in the matter. Similar to them running a serial number check on every gun to ensure they aren't stolen.

 

[Booya]

Sounds like the manager advised you of the policy during your conversation after shooting. You didn't like it. So now you won't go back.

Problem solved.

No no, the manager advised him of "the law" during their conversation and then decided it was just policy.

As with many other unpublished rules as I've mentioned before. If you were shooting prone and the RO told you it wasn't allowed, would a similar complaint be voiced, or would it just be "ok, sorry".?

I don't see how this is even closely a relevant comparison.
____________________________________________________________________

I like how so many of these places that pander to gun owners i.e., sell guns, ammunition, NFA items... etc. Are all so ready to let us know what "the law" is. The minute to try to educate them, the law becomes policy, OR they just say maintain that it is still the law. Having said that, I know half the people they say things like this to don't know themselves and then move on to perpetuate these false laws to others.

I feel like anytime someone is about explain something is a law and they're not 1000% sure that it actually is, they should be using a Donny Baker voice...

 

[jamil]

Dang, VUPD...I don't see the problem.

Take your tax stamp. It proves that you own the items legally.

Don't forget your birth certificate, you don't want them to think you are an "undocumented migrant".

...And the kids' papers...you might be a kidnapper.

Also might want to take your voter registration, you know...to rule out any political objections they might have.

A note from your mom wouldn't hurt...

Hey, if you don't have anything to hide...registration for the car you drove to the range. In case it's stolen. You never know how a jury might react.

 

[SSGSAD]

Sounds like the manager advised you of the policy during your conversation after shooting. You didn't like it. So now you won't go back.

Problem solved.

And 297 posts later, we are still talking about this ..... .....

 

[Thegeek]

My last 5 years returns actually do contain private information and SSN numbers, salary, sources of income, etc. The ATF form 4 does not. But I'll play. Your DL can be utilized to forward an identity theft, and form 4 really can't. So which one should you be more protective of?