Two-Thirds of Americans Favor Citizenship for Illegal Immigrants

[Dead Duck]

I never said we were. Do you know what the word "logistics" means?

Ya-
It's them little bugs that treehuggers get.

 

[Fargo]

Ya-
It's them little bugs that treehuggers get.

If in September 2001 I said:

"The Russians had a hell of a time moving their military through Afghanistan because of the mountainous terrain, if we are going to invade Afghanistan we need to figure out the Logistics of dealing with that."

Would you think that I was saying we had the same motive and goals as the Soviets?

 

[Dead Duck]

If in September 2001 I said:

"The Russians had a hell of a time moving their military through Afghanistan because of the mountainous terrain, if we are going to invade Afghanistan we need to figure out the Logistics of dealing with that."

Would you think that I was saying we had the same motive and goals as the Soviets?

Doesn't matter. We are not the USSR.
We are the USA.

That makes all the difference in the world......Literally.

 

[Fargo]

Doesn't matter. We are not the USSR.
We are the USA.

That makes all the difference in the world......Literally.

Whatever you say man. Have a good evening.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I want to know where these gunners are going to come from. My comparison was logistical, not political.

US Army? USMC?

We've got a lot of folks who are armed, trained, and tasked with defending the country who are stuck painting rocks, picking up cigarette butts, etc. when there is no active war going on. When I was in the Army we deployed to assist USBP. Ft. Huachuca assisted with aerial surveillance in the form of blimps and hot air balloons that could see the border. After the Marine vs shepherd incident, Clinton said no more guns for soldiers on the border, though.

Of course the Mexican army "patrols" their side fully armed. Go figure.

 

[Fargo]

US Army? USMC?

We've got a lot of folks who are armed, trained, and tasked with defending the country who are stuck painting rocks, picking up cigarette butts, etc. when there is no active war going on. When I was in the Army we deployed to assist USBP. Ft. Huachuca assisted with aerial surveillance in the form of blimps and hot air balloons that could see the border. After the Marine vs shepherd incident, Clinton said no more guns for soldiers on the border, though.

Of course the Mexican army "patrols" their side fully armed. Go figure.

Do you think that US military personnel would be fine with plinking off folks they know to be mostly women, children and day laborers?

How many divisions do you think it would take to man 2000 miles of chain-link fence 24/7, 365?

 

[devious169]

I like money. I can't believe you like money too.

Ding ding ding.....we've got a winner!

 

[devious169]

Do you think that US military personnel would be fine with plinking off folks they know to be mostly women, children and day laborers?

How many divisions do you think it would take to man 2000 miles of chain-link fence 24/7, 365?

Drones man.....they don't have feelings. Nor do half the ****ing kids controlling them. It's just like cod to them

 

[Fargo]

Drones man.....they don't have feelings. Nor do half the ****ing kids controlling them. It's just like cod to them

I have a long time friend who is a predator pilot, I don't believe he agrees with you.

At 70,000 dollars a shot, I'm not sure Hellfires are economically feasible.

Never mind the morality of any of this killing...

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Do you think that US military personnel would be fine with plinking off folks they know to be mostly women, children and day laborers?

How many divisions do you think it would take to man 2000 miles of chain-link fence 24/7, 365?

I don't know. Do you think they'd be fine with plinking off human traffickers and drug smugglers? I can play hearts and minds too, if you want. I've actually been there, though, and worked the border on a deployment. If you look at it in terms of risk vs reward, at this point there is very little risk. You get caught, you get put back on your side, you try again in a few hours. Up the risk, fewer of your hypothetical women and children will make the dash. Lower the reward in terms of available work and living here forever as an illegal, and fewer of your hypothetical day laborers will be crossing. Give people a legal and workable way to come legally and not risk it, again, what's the results?

How many divisions? We aren't trying to stop an armored spearhead. A couple battalions of 12Bs could rig a border that could be lightly manned if combined with sensors and quick response teams. We've got, what, at least 30 Brigade Combat Teams? We've got the manpower, we've got the equipment, we don't have the political will.

 

[Fargo]

I don't know. Do you think they'd be fine with plinking off human traffickers and drug smugglers? I can play hearts and minds too, if you want. I've actually been there, though, and worked the border on a deployment. If you look at it in terms of risk vs reward, at this point there is very little risk. You get caught, you get put back on your side, you try again in a few hours. Up the risk, fewer of your hypothetical women and children will make the dash. Lower the reward in terms of available work and living here forever as an illegal, and fewer of your hypothetical day laborers will be crossing. Give people a legal and workable way to come legally and not risk it, again, what's the results?

How many divisions? We aren't trying to stop an armored spearhead. A couple battalions of 12Bs could rig a border that could be lightly manned if combined with sensors and quick response teams. We've got, what, at least 30 Brigade Combat Teams? We've got the manpower, we've got the equipment, we don't have the political will.

I personally am very thankful that this country lacks the will to slaughter folks for trying to come into the country. YMMV.

Could you pull the trigger on folks you knew nothing about except that they were trying to cross the border?

Let's also not forget that you probably have to repeal the fourth and 14th amendments to make any of what has been suggested legal.

 

[poptab]

What standard of morality justifies shooting unarmed people who are trying to cross an imaginary line?

More importantly... Who is going to pay for it?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I personally am very thankful that this country lacks the will to slaughter folks for trying to come into the country. YMMV.

Could you pull the trigger on folks you knew nothing about except that they were trying to cross the border?

Let's also not forget that you probably have to repeal the fourth and 14th amendments to make any of what has been suggested legal.

How many people do we slaughter at the Korean DMZ? Or does the obstacle and the risk reduce the numbers of people who would attempt to cross.

I've noticed in your argument you tend to look at each component in a vacuum. That if we change X, then Y and Z will continue to be the exact same. A sufficient obstacle reduces attempts to cross, and a carrot/stick approaches reduces it further.

Given that we've defended our border with the Army before well after either amendment, I'm thinking we're in solid legal territory to do so again. Remember how Gen. Pershing made his name?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_War_(1910–19)

 

[jbombelli]

I don't support shooting them. But I do support making all forms of public assistance available to citizens only, and revoking the business licenses of any company (large or small) that knowingly hires an illegal, along with seizing all personal assets of any company officer or employee involved. It may seem draconian, but nobody is going to pay attention to anything less.

 

[OakRiver]

Do you think that US military personnel would be fine with plinking off folks they know to be mostly women, children and day laborers?

Another appeal to emotion.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

What standard of morality justifies shooting unarmed people who are trying to cross an imaginary line?

Interesting that shooting seems to be the only way folks think we can enforce a secure border.

Keep in mind your property lines are equally "imaginary".

 

[Fargo]

Interesting that shooting seems to be the only way folks think we can enforce a secure border.

Keep in mind your property lines are equally "imaginary".

Neither I nor Poptab suggested this, other posters did.

I agree that it is interesting that it is even being proposed.

 

[Fargo]

How many people do we slaughter at the Korean DMZ? Or does the obstacle and the risk reduce the numbers of people who would attempt to cross.

I've noticed in your argument you tend to look at each component in a vacuum. That if we change X, then Y and Z will continue to be the exact same. A sufficient obstacle reduces attempts to cross, and a carrot/stick approaches reduces it further.

Given that we've defended our border with the Army before well after either amendment, I'm thinking we're in solid legal territory to do so again. Remember how Gen. Pershing made his name?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_War_(1910–19)

What are the ROEs at the DMZ?

General Pershing was not operating in a post Tennessee v. Garner environment and his was a military expedition into a foreign nation. The 14th amendment and fourth amendment do not distinguish based on citizenship. There is a ton of caselaw to that effect. If you think the current SCOTUS would go for this, methinks you are not very familiar with its recent rulings.

Still curious if you would drop the hammer on these people?

 

[jbombelli]

Neither I nor Poptab suggested this, other posters did.

I agree that it is interesting that it is even being proposed.

Take it as a clue that a lot of people are getting seriously fed up with the cartel violence and kidnappings, the criminals coming here and murdering people, the total disrespect for our laws. More and more people are seeing the illegal immigration situation as a massive invasion of criminals, terrorists and freeloaders.

 

[Fargo]

Take it as a clue that a lot of people are getting seriously fed up with the cartel violence and kidnappings, the criminals coming here and murdering people, the total disrespect for our laws. More and more people are seeing the illegal immigration situation as a massive invasion of criminals, terrorists and freeloaders.

What percentage of murders and kidnappings in the US are committed by illegal aliens? I honestly want to know the answer.