Tucson, We Have a Problem

[88GT]

gestapo? Relocate, form new opinion. There is NO way they hit him 60 times without sight alignment. I have no more information on this than anyone else. Unless this was the best swat team in the nation there is no way this shoot could not have been justified. I guarantee they fired when he aimed. Or refused to drop the weapon.

I just read the article again. Here's the pertinent part:

SWAT members broke down the door and saw Guerena at the end of a long hallway. The physical layout of the house automatically narrowed the field of vision and practically created the sight picture as well. If they're looking down the hallway (with guns pointed in the direction they are looking), anyone standing in the hallway is essentially targeted. No big effort on their part.

 

[dross]

I just read the article again. Here's the pertinent part:

SWAT members broke down the door and saw Guerena at the end of a long hallway. The physical layout of the house automatically narrowed the field of vision and practically created the sight picture as well. If they're looking down the hallway (with guns pointed in the direction they are looking), anyone standing in the hallway is essentially targeted. No big effort on their part.

I think maybe when people are shot at the end of long hallways it indicates a good shoot.

Just tryin' to get ahead of the hyperbole.

 

[iwearcowboyboots]

"pointed a gun at officers serving a search warrant at his home."


"The department says SWAT members were clear when identifying themselves while entering the home"
"Tucson is notorious for home invasions and we didn't want to look like that," said Lt. Michael O'Connor of the Pima County Sheriff's Department. "We went lights and sirens and we absolutely did not do a 'no-knock' warrant."

From what I read they made entry and the suspect was crouched down.

"When five SWAT members broke through the front door Guerena was crouched down pointing the gun at them, said O'Connor"

Unless those are false circumstances the shooting is 100% justified.

I wonder if him taking a defensive position (crouched down and pointing the gun at the doorway) had anything to do with the fact that he had military training and that he could have honestly thought the people at his door were criminals.

Members of his wife's family were killed in Tucson in a home invasion last year. Skim down a few paragraphs on that article to see the mention of his wife's family members killed in a criminal home invasion where the perps even shot a 3 year old.

 

[88GT]

I wonder if him taking a defensive position (crouched down and pointing the gun at the doorway) had anything to do with the fact that he had military training and that he could have honestly thought the people at his door were criminals.

Members of his wife's family were killed in Tucson in a home invasion last year. Skim down a few paragraphs on that article to see the mention of his wife's family members killed in a criminal home invasion where the perps even shot a 3 year old.

Okay, that article, dated today, claims the warrant was based on narcotics and the home was targeted specifically for a crackdown on drugs.

Now, is this a case of the media still operating from LE's first version and not staying up to date with the story changes, or is LE going back to it's original (it was the original story, wasn't it? it was at least one of the earliest ones) story and claiming this was drug-related?


I honestly don't know how to take it.

 

[iwearcowboyboots]

Okay, that article, dated today, claims the warrant was based on narcotics and the home was targeted specifically for a crackdown on drugs.

Now, is this a case of the media still operating from LE's first version and not staying up to date with the story changes, or is LE going back to it's original (it was the original story, wasn't it? it was at least one of the earliest ones) story and claiming this was drug-related?


I honestly don't know how to take it.

I'm not 100% sure about ABC, but CBS likes to do this thing where anytime they have new info they just file it out with info from older articles.

 

[PatriotPride]

I understand your loyalties fall almost universally on one particular side of the line, but you are most definitely NOT exhibiting an open mind, contrary to your statement.

The wagons have been circled. They're attempting to get the story straight. There are those here that honestly believe that shooting a man several times, then letting him die is acceptable. Whatever way you choose to look at it, it's pathetic and sad.

 

[Bummer]

..my mind is still somewhat open.

That is the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

 

[NYFelon]

Question: If the cops "found everything they were looking for", why is the search warrant sealed from public view? Hmmm.

 

[PatriotPride]

Question: If the cops "found everything they were looking for", why is the search warrant sealed from public view? Hmmm.

Like I said, circling the wagons and getting the story straight. Move along, nothing to see here.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Question: If the cops "found everything they were looking for", why is the search warrant sealed from public view? Hmmm.

The search warrant is a tool in an ongoing inter-disciplinary multi-jurisdictional task-force investigation of illegal activities in the Tucson and greater Southwestern United States. Disclosure of the contents of the warrant at this particular time will hamper and impede this investigation which has already netted the arrest of thousands of illegal aliens, drug smugglers, and others engaged in the illegal trade of drugs, human trafficking, and the illegal trade of exotic, rare and endangered species animals for which there is no possible outcome other than extinction. As a result of the heroic efforts of this crack team of inter-disciplinary multi-jurisdictional members of this task-force over $10 billion [STRIKE]dollars[/STRIKE] tons of meth, marijuana, and Robitussin, as well as over $50 [STRIKE]million[/STRIKE] billion illegal guns have been kept out of the hands of Mexican cartel members and Appleseed shooters.

We ask the indulgence of the good people of [STRIKE]Tucson[/STRIKE] [STRIKE]Arizona[/STRIKE] [STRIKE]the United States[/STRIKE] the world to respect the tireless work efforts of our inter-disciplinary multi-jurisdictional task-force as it completes its mandated mission. More information will be forthcoming when operationally feasible and necessary.

No futher statement or questions at this time.

Signed, Epstein's Mother

 

[Rookie]

In situations like this, "Because we said so" isn't good enough. Surely, you understand that.

What you fail to realize is that is the core of Keyser Soze's belief.

 

[Rookie]

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that this guy was the next bin laden. I've yet to see a reasonable explanation as to why they refused medical treatment.

 

[PatriotPride]

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that this guy was the next bin laden. I've yet to see a reasonable explanation as to why they refused medical treatment.

Nor will you see one, for the simple reason that there isn't one. But, you know, Officer Safety, blah blah blah. I'm sure a resident Officer Safety advocate will be along shortly to offer a "reasonable explanation", but I might be mistaken.

 

[NYFelon]

Like I said, circling the wagons and getting the story straight. Move along, nothing to see here.

word to your mutha's doo-rag.

The search warrant is a tool in an ongoing inter-disciplinary multi-jurisdictional task-force investigation of illegal activities in the Tucson and greater Southwestern United States. Disclosure of the contents of the warrant at this particular time will hamper and impede this investigation which has already netted the arrest of thousands of illegal aliens, drug smugglers, and others engaged in the illegal trade of drugs, human trafficking, and the illegal trade of exotic, rare and endangered species animals for which there is no possible outcome other than extinction. As a result of the heroic efforts of this crack team of inter-disciplinary multi-jurisdictional members of this task-force over $10 billion [STRIKE]dollars[/STRIKE] tons of meth, marijuana, and Robitussin, as well as over $50 [STRIKE]million[/STRIKE] billion illegal guns have been kept out of the hands of Mexican cartel members and Appleseed shooters.

We ask the indulgence of the good people of [STRIKE]Tucson[/STRIKE] [STRIKE]Arizona[/STRIKE] [STRIKE]the United States[/STRIKE] the world to respect the tireless work efforts of our inter-disciplinary multi-jurisdictional task-force as it completes its mandated mission. More information will be forthcoming when operationally feasible and necessary.

No futher statement or questions at this time.

Signed, Epstein's Mother

Thanks for that. I nearly choked trying to get my drink down before spitting it on my monitor.

 

[rambone]

So from what I read swat officers found everything they were looking for; guns, body armor, police uniform

Thank God they killed the right guy then. Our streets are safer without these rouge citizens running loose, thinking they can own guns in America, or dress themselves without government guidance.

 

[rambone]

My hands are bleeding from performing so many facepalms.

 

[PatriotPride]

word to your mutha's doo-rag.

Well then

 

[91FXRS]

So he is a drug dealer and performing fake raids on the side but dies with his safety on and not a single shot fired.

 

[lashicoN]

So from what I read swat officers found everything they were looking for; guns, body armor, police uniform

Notice how they did not mention drugs yet people are still think this is a drug issue. Looks like this dead guy was part of a home invasion "crew" that used police to force entry and take peoples S#$% . This story is a perfect example of why I have a hard time reading some of what you guys post. Absolutely no thought into it. I'll admit I tend to side toward the side of law enforcement my mind is still somewhat open.

A police uniform? Whoa! That solves the puzzle. He was a bad guy, probably part of a home invasion crew. It's not like the police filled his body with bullets and then denied him medical treatment while he bled out, which would have made them feel like perhaps they didn't do the right thing. Dirty police officers don't have access to Police Uniforms do they? Nevermind...dirty murderous cops would never plant evidence at the scene of a crime to try to exonerate themselves. I bet if the DEA raided his house they would have found a DEA jacket in his closet. That must means he was stealing drugs from local dealers, posing as a DEA agent, simply because they turned up an article of clothing that all of the shooters had access to.

Absolutely. I only stated it was probable. Typically when I kill is unjustified accuracy is poor. When a kill is justified accuracy is greater.

So, is this the case when people shoot police officers too? If they killed them, it was obviously a justified shot, right Keyser, because that's exactly what you just said. Do you buy your logic from an off-brand online Mexican dealer or something?

So he is a drug dealer and performing fake raids on the side but dies with his safety on and not a single shot fired.

Obviously, Karma (or God, who is it Keyser?) knew it wasn't going to be a justified shooting, so it kept flipping his safety back to on. If it was going to be a justified shooting, he would have found a bull-barrel installed on his M4 along with a Beta-C filled with incendiary/Badge-chaser .223 rounds and he wouldn't have ever had to aim. Justification would have aimed his rounds for him.

 

[dross]

My hands are bleeding from performing so many facepalms.

I feel you. I've got a callous on the tip of my nose and the middle of my palm.