Tucson, We Have a Problem

[MinuteMan47]

Man, the cops just did not handle this one correctly.

The attorney said one of the reasons the SWAT officers fired on him was because they "thought they saw a muzzle flash...this could have been caused by bullets hitting his weapon"....

HUH!?

What's worse? A picture of Jesus Malverde or a tshirt with gang emblems on it?

Or the guys with those marijuana leaf belt buckles.

 

[SSGSAD]

And it seems it's only going to get worse from here...I really hope people at least attempt to start defending themselves before they are murdered. Maybe these thugs will start thinking twice before just busting down some innocent family's door.

What about the state Supreme Court ruling, that says, WE, can't defend ourselves, against the PO PO, when they knock down, our door, by "mistake" ?????

 

[dross]

The attorney said one of the reasons the SWAT officers fired on him was because they "thought they saw a muzzle flash...this could have been caused by bullets hitting his weapon"....

HUH!?

.

What don't you get? The officers fired because they saw a muzzle flash which could have come from the bullets the officers fired striking the guy's rifle.

They might have fired in good faith because they thought they were fired upon first because their rounds hitting him caused flashes.

They've explained, for God's sake. Don't be a hater.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

They thought they saw a puddy cat....

If there's more to why they were going into that house, they need to release it and FAST. If this is all they had, the term "botched" does not even start to describe it.

 

[MinuteMan47]

What don't you get? The officers fired because they saw a muzzle flash which could have come from the bullets the officers fired striking the guy's rifle.

They might have fired in good faith because they thought they were fired upon first because their rounds hitting him caused flashes.

They've explained, for God's sake. Don't be a hater.

Actually, I re-read the article after I posted.....The reason SWAT fired first was because Guerena said he "had something for them"........

How do they know it wasn't a little kitten?


The reason SWAT thought he returned fire was because they saw "muzzle flash", which could have been caused by some of the 72 bullets hitting his rifle.

 

[Benny]

What about the state Supreme Court ruling, that says, WE, can't defend ourselves, against the PO PO, when they knock down, our door, by "mistake" ?????

May God rest their soul(s).

Actually, I re-read the article after I posted.....The reason SWAT fired first was because Guerena said he "had something for them"........

How do they know it wasn't a little kitten?


The reason SWAT thought he returned fire was because they saw "muzzle flash", which could have been caused by some of the 72 bullets hitting his rifle.

Thinking in purple can sometimes be your friend.

 

[MinuteMan47]

Thinking in purple can sometimes be your friend.

I need another friend like I need another.....well, you know how it goes...

 

[MinuteMan47]

My point was that I thought it was a poor excuse to open fire on a man in his home....let alone 72 shots.


I know if someone kicked in my door I'm not going to ask them if they want a cold beverage.

 

[Benny]

My point was that I thought it was a poor excuse to open fire on a man in his home....let alone 72 shots.

Jeez, there you go stretching the truth again. It was only 71 shots.



BTW, it was clearly a poor excuse and dross expressed that sentiment with his sarcastic post.

 

[MinuteMan47]

Jeez, there you go stretching the truth again. It was only 71 shots.



BTW, it was clearly a poor excuse and dross expressed that sentiment with his sarcastic post.

I wanted to TRY and be sarcastic as well.

So, I lied...I do want to be one of the cool kids, and I do need friends.

 

[96firephoenix]

what I'm curious about is what has happened to the video footage? I thought swat raids always took video, or is that me just thinking in ideals?

If they have video footage, I would put money that it gets "accidentally destroyed" between now and trial. if they have no video, then all we have is the officers' word (after they all got together and got their story straight) against the dead body of a man who had a picture of el Robin Hood under his bed and some clothes that looked like police uniforms. I've seen plenty of guys walking around with shirts that have pleats over the breasts and front pockets like police blouses. They looked kinda Douchey, but its their fashion statement - who's to say he [STRIKE]doesn't[/STRIKE] didn't dress like a douche?

He's a marine. The AR, flak jacket and body armor are perfectly understandable. Whatever he said to the officers could very easily have been mis-heard, especially if they were expecting spanish and heard english/vice-versa and had to make a quick mental transition/translation. I know when I get used to talking in spanish, english becomes a foreign language for about 2/3 of a second.

 

[Benny]

I wanted to TRY and be sarcastic as well.

So, I lied...I do want to be one of the cool kids, and I do need friends.

***Group hug***

 

[Benny]

against the dead body of a man who had a picture of el Robin Hood under his bed

Is that Spanish for "The Robin Hood?"

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnbWa3E70zg[/ame]

 

[96firephoenix]

***Group hug***

just don't get too touchy feely... you'll end up in one of these threads:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ape_with_daughters_16_year_old_boyfriend.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...0198-accused_child_molesters_life_ruined.html

 

[BumpShadow]

Sad state of affairs all the way around. Of course, zero names of officers. Thats what I want, names.

The decison to state that you can't defend yourself against any police entry, mistake or otherwise doesn't surprise me, courts will always rule police as "untouchables". And when anyone, ANYONE, gets that title, they will abuse it. Slow at first, test the waters, get people used to the idea. Then right out from under your nose, its not even news anymore.

Me thinks that if Justice Stevens ruling ever makes it to the Federal Supreme Court, which I doubt, It will be upheld.

I think I can say for the first time, I am truly, truly more scared of the police than the criminals. A no-knock is a death sentence for me as well. Good thing I'm a Christian.

 

[Benny]

I think I can say for the first time, I am truly, truly more scared of the police than the criminals. A no-knock is a death sentence for me as well. Good thing I'm a Christian.

It's scary as hell, because at least with criminals you have a fighting chance...I guess there's always a chance of multiple armed(and trained) criminals that could break into my house and kill me, but if I start firing back, there's a chance they will go away or I may even be able to incapacitate them since I know my house better than they do...

If I fire back against a SWAT team that kicks in my door unannounced, no matter how lawful and innocent I am, there is only one way I'm leaving my house and that's in a body bag.

 

[rambone]

Good guys 0
SWAT 1

 

[dross]

It's scary as hell, because at least with criminals you have a fighting chance...I guess there's always a chance of multiple armed(and trained) criminals that could break into my house and kill me, but if I start firing back, there's a chance they will go away or I may even be able to incapacitate them since I know my house better than they do...

If I fire back against a SWAT team that kicks in my door unannounced, no matter how lawful and innocent I am, there is only one way I'm leaving my house and that's in a body bag.

I've been thinking about this and I think there's one way to leave your house alive. Once you've shot and then you realize you shot a cop, you can't surrender right away. You've got to keep fighting until you get a standoff. Call the local media, and offer to surrender after they get there. Then you might have a chance. So the trick is, once you've accidentally shot at the unannounced intruders, you have to keep fighting after you realize who they are. You have to win momentarily.

It's the only way I can see under the rules they've set up.

 

[BumpShadow]

It's scary as hell, because at least with criminals you have a fighting chance...I guess there's always a chance of multiple armed(and trained) criminals that could break into my house and kill me, but if I start firing back, there's a chance they will go away or I may even be able to incapacitate them since I know my house better than they do...

If I fire back against a SWAT team that kicks in my door unannounced, no matter how lawful and innocent I am, there is only one way I'm leaving my house and that's in a body bag.

My thoughts exactly. Criminals are easy, their cowards mostly. They want the easy meal. All you have to do is make yourself too hard a target and they move on. At least as long as they don't want you or a member of your household. Kidnappings and targeted hits are the only time the true criminal death squad is sent in, as far as I know.

But police, or worse SWAT police, now thats scary.

I would like too point out one thing that hasn't been said. If it has I sorry for the repost. That point being that emontional state of the officers involved has not been queried or even known as far as I can see.

I mean, this thread has assumed that these guy's were a jack-booted death squad carrying out to revenge kill for one of their own, and these could very will not be the case. These guy's could be destroyed emotionally from this. Just because one is on a SWAT team, doesn't mean he/she(?) is any more emotionally capable of stomaching killing another human being than any one else, let alone an innocent person, and a vet to boot. Most SWAT raids do end in 0 shots fired, and no deaths. That is the point of raid in the first place, to avoid bloodshed by having to much momentum and force that bloodshed is avoided. I would imagine from the police point of view, and the sheriffs, we are the monsters.

Of course, the political and social aspect of all this is not withstanding when taking the toll of the officer's into account here. All I'm saying lets remember that those men were human, just like you and me. And even though no damage may come to them career wise, the guilt may still have or will destroy them.


P.S.-The sheriff is still slime in my book.

 

[Benny]

I've been thinking about this and I think there's one way to leave your house alive. Once you've shot and then you realize you shot a cop, you can't surrender right away. You've got to keep fighting until you get a standoff. Call the local media, and offer to surrender after they get there. Then you might have a chance. So the trick is, once you've accidentally shot at the unannounced intruders, you have to keep fighting after you realize who they are. You have to win momentarily.

It's the only way I can see under the rules they've set up.

That is the EXACT same scenario that I have thought of, but the odds of you/me/us pulling something like that off seems next to impossible...

I don't know how thick the inner walls are in your house, but if a SWAT team will fire 71 shots into flesh before stopping, how many are they going to fire into the wall you are hiding behind? I certainly hope unarmed loved ones aren't also hiding behind there with you/me/us.