trump

[GodFearinGunTotin]

You mis-spelled "untrue and damaging".

Like "Lying Ted"?

 

[chipbennett]

Like "Lying Ted"?

If Cruz doesn't like being called a liar, then perhaps he should not lie.

 

[jamil]

If Cruz doesn't like being called a liar, then perhaps he should not lie.

Well it ain't like Trump ain't lyin'. Imagine a world where politicians don't lie and don't invent straw monsters.

 

[Thor]

Well, I suppose in the world of marketing reality TV and wrestling personalities sell better than solicitors and politicians.

I watched both speeches, Cruz got a lot of standing ovations. Trump not so much so, he was politely received.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

If Cruz doesn't like being called a liar, then perhaps he should not lie.

Trump started on this during that Carson canard. He knew (and anybody that can discern what really happened) that wasn't a case of Cruz lying but has insisted on pursuing this harmful and damaging course of action ever since. Good thing not all candidates are so thin skinned as Trump as to want to threaten legal action in an attempt to shut them down and up.

 

[chipbennett]

Well it ain't like Trump ain't lyin'. Imagine a world where politicians don't lie and don't invent straw monsters.

Do politicians lie? Is water wet?

The question is: what constitutes libel? If Cruz lies, and Donald Trump calls him "Lyin' Ted", is that libel?

(And that line of discussion ignores the point that Trump's issue is specifically with libel in the media - not by individuals, politicians or otherwise. Further, it ignores the point that Trump's issue is with the malice standard, not with the standards of falsity or damage.)

 

[chipbennett]

Trump started on this during that Carson canard. He knew (and anybody that can discern what really happened) that wasn't a case of Cruz lying but has insisted on pursuing this harmful and damaging course of action ever since. Good thing not all candidates are so thin skinned as Trump as to want to threaten legal action in an attempt to shut them down and up.

Cruz lied about Carson. Cruz's campaign staffers lied about Carson, even after Carson refuted the lies. That's simply fact. But Cruz's lies go well beyond that incident.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Cruz lied about Carson. Cruz's campaign staffers lied about Carson, even after Carson refuted the lies. That's simply fact. But Cruz's lies go well beyond that incident.

No, they are not facts. Carson said he was not going to New Hampshire and CNN picked up the story and theorized that Carson was ending his campaign. The Cruz people (and to a less publicized extent, so did the Rubio and Trump people) repeated this as news at the Iowa caucuses. No intentional lie was made by any of them, including Rubio and Trump. Carson was the one that initiated that scrum. And when he thought he might have caught a bit of a spark, all of a sudden, he decided he could live with the wardrobe he had on his bus another week. Carson, as a result of that episode, proved himself to be more of a politician than I gave him credit for.

 

[Route 45]

We'll never truly know, regardless. He won't be President.

Au contraire.....you might want to go ahead and schedule a therapist appointment for November 9.

 

[chipbennett]

No, they are not facts. Carson said he was not going to New Hampshire and CNN picked up the story and theorized that Carson was ending his campaign. The Cruz people (and to a less publicized extent, so did the Rubio and Trump people) repeated this as news at the Iowa caucuses. No intentional lie was made by any of them, including Rubio and Trump. Carson was the one that initiated that scrum. And when he thought he might have caught a bit of a spark, all of a sudden, he decided he could live with the wardrobe he had on his bus another week. Carson, as a result of that episode, proved himself to be more of a politician than I gave him credit for.

After Carson refuted the rumors, Cruz campaign staffers were still making phone calls to caucus goers, saying that Carson was rumored to be dropping out. There is recorded evidence of that happening, after Carson refuted the rumors.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

After Carson refuted the rumors, Cruz campaign staffers were still making phone calls to caucus goers, saying that Carson was rumored to be dropping out. There is recorded evidence of that happening, after Carson refuted the rumors.

Refute? More like spin the rumors.

 

[chipbennett]

Refute? More like spin the rumors.

On the day of the Iowa caucuses, when the Cruz campaign was telling caucus goers that Carson was ending his campaign, Carson was merely "spinning the rumors"? Really?

 

[T.Lex]

But if Carson was a politician at that point, and politicians lie, why would Cruz and his staffers believe him?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

On the day of the Iowa caucuses, when the Cruz campaign was telling caucus goers that Carson was ending his campaign, Carson was merely "spinning the rumors"? Really?

Around 6:30, on the day of the caucus, CNN made the report, based on Carson's own words he was "taking a break from campaigning" and not going to NH or SC, several of the campaigns mentioned that news during the caucuses. It wasn't until after 9pm that CNN corrected their story. Once Carson (whose campaign was one train wreck after another, all season long) realized the gaff he made, tried to spin it like he was just going home to get a new suit or something. This was Carson's boondoggle. Cruz did not lie about it. That's what's at issue here, is the story that Cruz lied. He didn't lie. Carson lied -- after he realized what he said appeared to mean to people. Lie or spin -- it should be on Carson. Just another train wreck in a train wreck of a campaign.

 

[jamil]

Do politicians lie? Is water wet?

The question is: what constitutes libel? If Cruz lies, and Donald Trump calls him "Lyin' Ted", is that libel?

(And that line of discussion ignores the point that Trump's issue is specifically with libel in the media - not by individuals, politicians or otherwise. Further, it ignores the point that Trump's issue is with the malice standard, not with the standards of falsity or damage.)

No. That's not libel. But neither is Ted Cruz using Donald Trump's own words against him. I'm not apposed to candidates calling each other poopyheads, you know, free speech and all. I'm just not sure why mature audiences wouldn't just roll their eyes at that.

 

[Thor]

Yeah, we could call Drumpf a liar but he'd sue us because it's on the internet and we're now defacto news agencies and he's going to free all that up...

Him calling other people liars for questionable reasons that's okay though, just politics and him being not PC and what not.

 

[chipbennett]

No. That's not libel. But neither is Ted Cruz using Donald Trump's own words against him. I'm not apposed to candidates calling each other poopyheads, you know, free speech and all. I'm just not sure why mature audiences wouldn't just roll their eyes at that.

Who has claimed otherwise?

 

[chipbennett]

Yeah, we could call Drumpf a liar but he'd sue us because it's on the internet and we're now defacto news agencies and he's going to free all that up...

Him calling other people liars for questionable reasons that's okay though, just politics and him being not PC and what not.

I keep seeing that. Is it supposed to be some sort of slight, or smear? What is the substance behind it? Or is it just Alinsky-ite ad hominem?

 

[ArcadiaGP]

I keep seeing that. Is it supposed to be some sort of slight, or smear? What is the substance behind it? Or is it just Alinsky-ite ad hominem?

Didn't look into it much, but I think John Oliver made it a small movement. From what I vaguely understand, it was his family name when they came to America?

 

[jamil]

Who has claimed otherwise?

You didn't watch the debate? Trump said he'd sue Ted for lying. Ted responded that he only repeated Trump's own words, and that he'd welcome the opportunity to depose Trump under oath, himself. And something to the effect of bring it, *****. Paraphrasing of course.