Trump pardons Sheriff Joe

[Sylvain]

I think the better question, is did Arpaio arrest anyone who was present in our (their) country, legally, and not a criminal?.... which is a yes.

Were they arrested or detained until they could find out if they were legal residents?

I'm genuinely asking since I don't know much about Arpaio's actions.

I'm sure iit's common for cops to detain or arrest the wrong guy.
Nobody likes to be in handcuffs when they have not broken the law but that doesn't mean there's always some kind of ill will behind the arrest.

 

[Fargo]

Were they arrested or detained until they could find out if they were legal residents?

I'm genuinely asking since I don't know much about Arpaio's actions.

I'm sure iit's common for cops to detain or arrest the wrong guy.
Nobody likes to be in handcuffs when they have not broken the law but that doesn't mean there's always some kind of ill will behind the arrest.

Well, there were those reporters who are reporting unfavorably on him, and then there was that guy his detectives went and hired to build a bomb, and then there were the county commissioners who he tried to have charged after they looked into his finances...

 

[Kutnupe14]

Were they arrested or detained until they could find out if they were legal residents?

I'm genuinely asking since I don't know much about Arpaio's actions.

I'm sure iit's common for cops to detain or arrest the wrong guy.
Nobody likes to be in handcuffs when they have not broken the law but that doesn't mean there's always some kind of ill will behind the arrest.

For the purposed of this discussion, "arrested" means deprived of liberty absent reasonable suspicion or probably cause, and which is not a good faith error. Which of course is illegal, regardless of one's skin color.

 

[amboy49]

Since, you've read further into this, did you happen to come across the reasoning for these commutations? And you're clear, on what a commutation does, right?

This pardon by the president piqued my interest so I did a little ( very little ) research. What I came across was the presidential pardon of Marc Rich by William Clinton. Upon reading the details, I came to the conclusion that Clinton was a bigger whore than I thought he was - and I suspect Hillary was complicit as well.

This does not address the Obama pardons/commutations nor the pardon of the good Sheriff - but it does bring into question the unique ability a U.S. President has to command monarch like powers.

 

[Kutnupe14]

This pardon by the president piqued my interest so I did a little ( very little ) research. What I came across was the presidential pardon of Marc Rich by William Clinton. Upon reading the details, I came to the conclusion that Clinton was a bigger whore than I thought he was - and I suspect Hillary was complicit as well.

This does not address the Obama pardons/commutations nor the pardon of the good Sheriff - but it does bring into question the unique ability a U.S. President has to command monarch like powers.

No disagreement there.

 

[Trigger Time]

It irony being, that the "experiment with freedom" you're talking about, and lamenting the possible passing of, only (based on your earlier post) applies to people that look like, and think like, you.

I think the republic is in grace danger from the left and from false republicans that are sadly in leadership positions.
I'm not president but if I were right now i would probably consider marshal law and eradicate domestic terror groups and those trying to overthrow the republic like soros.

 

[chipbennett]

You said no such thing is 100% correct. It's implied. If Arpaio is "profiling" Latinos, and you "don't give a rat's ass about profiling," then logic dictates exactly what I said. Unless you, of course, don't mind if you are targeted solely based on your skin color.

You are confusing imply and infer.

And I already stated that the profiling was based on behavior, not skin color.

 

[KLB]

You are confusing imply and infer.

And I already stated that the profiling was based on behavior, not skin color.

What behavior would indicate that someone is in the country illegally?

 

[KLB]

I think the republic is in grace danger from the left and from false republicans that are sadly in leadership positions.
I'm not president but if I were right now i would probably consider marshal law and eradicate domestic terror groups and those trying to overthrow the republic like soros.

So, you would throw out the Republic to save it?

 

[churchmouse]

So, you would throw out the Republic to save it?

This is a catch 22 isn't it.

Our biggest threats come from within it seems.

So how do we address this and stay inside the guidelines of those 2 documents.

 

[chipbennett]

I think the better question, is did Arpaio arrest anyone who was present in our (their) country, legally, and not a criminal?.... which is a yes.

What are the numbers, then? How many were detained without RAS, or arrested without PC?

Even the namesake of the class-action lawsuit, Melendres, was merely detained for 9 hours. And that, when he was at a location known to be frequented by illegal-immigrant day-workers (i.e. clear RAS to detain).

I'll say it more slowly: it. is. not. about. skin. color.

 

[chipbennett]

What behavior would indicate that someone is in the country illegally?

There are lots of behaviors that would indicate such. For example: hanging around a known illegal-immigrant day-labor site.

 

[KLB]

This is a catch 22 isn't it.

Our biggest threats come from within it seems.

So how do we address this and stay inside the guidelines of those 2 documents.

The biggest threats always come from within.

I don't think following the path Rome did is the answer though. We don't need a tyrant in charge arresting anyone that doesn't agree with their view of the world.

 

[KLB]

There are lots of behaviors that would indicate such. For example: hanging around a known illegal-immigrant day-labor site.

And what do you think the police should be able to do near one of these "known illegal-immigrant day-labor site"?

Ask any Hispanic person for ID? Check everyone for ID?

Stop any car driven by a Hispanic to check for citizenship?

Grab anyone that tries to leave when the police show up, since they are probably illegal?

 

[churchmouse]

The biggest threats always come from within.

I don't think following the path Rome did is the answer though. We don't need a tyrant in charge arresting anyone that doesn't agree with their view of the world.

OK. So my point is that regardless of the world view if said tyrant is addressing the issues of being threatened from within what are the limits.

Emigration is a huge issue. It puts a serious strain on out already strained resources.

Native terrorists are the same as to straining resources and our resolve.

This is a catch 22 and a slippery slope rolled into 1 so I am just wondering how we address these things. And not traipse on the 2 documents. Something needs to be done on both fronts. Weeding out is going to be very very hard.

 

[Kutnupe14]

What are the numbers, then? How many were detained without RAS, or arrested without PC?

Even the namesake of the class-action lawsuit, Melendres, was merely detained for 9 hours. And that, when he was at a location known to be frequented by illegal-immigrant day-workers (i.e. clear RAS to detain).

I'll say it more slowly: it. is. not. about. skin. color.

So you have number in mind of intentional violations to the Constitution that you're ok with? I'm at zero.

 

[KLB]

OK. So my point is that regardless of the world view if said tyrant is addressing the issues of being threatened from within what are the limits.

Emigration is a huge issue. It puts a serious strain on out already strained resources.

Native terrorists are the same as to straining resources and our resolve.

This is a catch 22 and a slippery slope rolled into 1 so I am just wondering how we address these things. And not traipse on the 2 documents. Something needs to be done on both fronts. Weeding out is going to be very very hard.

The same limits we use today for everything else. Where is the great threat to the Republic? Where are the streets lined with dead people?

Why do we need to take measures above what we already have in place?

Did you ever see the movie "The Siege"?

 

[Kutnupe14]

What are the numbers, then? How many were detained without RAS, or arrested without PC?

Even the namesake of the class-action lawsuit, Melendres, was merely detained for 9 hours. And that, when he was at a location known to be frequented by illegal-immigrant day-workers (i.e. clear RAS to detain).

I'll say it more slowly: it. is. not. about. skin. color.

Yeah, that incorrect. First, Melendres was in a vehicle that he was a passenger in, when it was stopped. The "reason" the vehicle was stopped was due to exceeding the speed limit. If you were correct that RS, to detain, existed simply by being at the location you indicated, then why is the traffic stop added for justification? You don't need several types of RS, one will do just fine. Magic question: Does LE have the right to compel a passenger of a legally stopped vehicle to identify himself? Further, according to the deputy that made the arrest due to the Melendes being at a "location known to be frequented by illegal-immigrant day workers," (which I can't source) his official court documented statement was "...some type of criminal activity could have been occurring out of that parking lot." "Could have," kinda indicates (at least to me), that he zero reasonable suspicion, and I'd love to see the judge who lets a "could have" meet the standards of RS or PC... coppers, lawyers?

And further Joe Arpaio stated, publicly (also documented by the court), that his deputies could detain people based on their "speech, what they look like, if they look like they came from another country." So mea culpa. It isn't just about skin color.... if you have an accent, you can be detained too.

Here look at the documents yourself.
https://www.aclu.org/legal-document...-sanctions-regarding-adverse-inferences-trial

 

[2A_Tom]

For the purposed of this discussion, "arrested" means deprived of liberty absent reasonable suspicion or probably cause, and which is not a good faith error. Which of course is illegal, regardless of one's skin color.

What?

Please clarify.

You can not redefine words to suit your agenda.

ar·rest
əˈrest/
verb

• 1.
  seize (someone) by legal authority and take into custody.

False arrest is a common law tort, where a plaintiff alleges he or she was held in custody without probable cause, or without an order issued by a court of competent jurisdiction. Although it is possible to sue law enforcement officials for false arrest, the usual defendants in such cases are private security firms.

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[Fargo]

What?

Please clarify.

You can not redefine words to suit your agenda.

ar·rest
əˈrest/
verb

• 1.
  seize (someone) by legal authority and take into custody.

False arrest is a common law tort, where a plaintiff alleges he or she was held in custody without probable cause, or without an order issued by a court of competent jurisdiction. Although it is possible to sue law enforcement officials for false arrest, the usual defendants in such cases are private security firms.

[/COLOR]

There are a number of legal contexts in which the definition of arrest Kut uses is the correct one. For example, when construing IC 9-30-2-2 the courts have held that any act restraining the ability of a person to move/leave constitutes an arrest. The definition you are using is usually referred to as "custodial arrest" which is an arrest for purpose of taking a person into state custody.

Making traffic stops based upon racial profiling is more than adequate to sustain a 1983 action, the city of Carmel was under a consent decree from the DOJ for years because of such a lawsuit.