Trump caves

[CampingJosh]

It seems to me that unlike you, he IS listening to the experts on the border. I would guess that you have not held an executive position, or you were a Second Lieutenant/Ensign.

The experts who say that the majority of illegal immigrants arrive via airplane are suggesting that a wall would make a difference? That's quite a wall.

As far as my background, you are free to guess whatever you want. You are wrong, but my credentials aren't at all relevant, and your decision to utilize an ad hominem rather than address my suggestion is plenty of evidence that there's not going to be value in my continuing to talk to you.

Opinions are like arm pits everyone has them and most smell.

Not how I've usually heard that saying.

This would be quite a boring forum without opinions.

 

[KG1]

Is the point you're making is that the Democrats are better at messaging?

The Democrats did'nt sell anything. A majority did'nt want Obamacare. They passed it anyway.

 

[Trigger Time]

I'd like someone to tell me who wants open borders first.

Democrats. They have actualy said it

 

[Brad69]

Kut

CampingJosh said he was all about some open borders that’s why I bought it up!

 

[BigRed]

Ending the ****ing welfare state would go a long ways towards curbing the flow of illegal aliens.

 

[Route 45]

Ending the ****ing welfare state would go a long ways towards curbing the flow of illegal aliens.

Jailing the idiots who hire them would work 1000x better.

 

[KG1]

We had to pass Obamacare to see what's in the bill. Howbout we build the wall to see how effective the wall will be?

 

[CampingJosh]

So can somebody explain open borders for me ?

How would this work?

Am I the only person that has visited Central America?

BTW
Thank you taxpayers for my trip to the 3rd world!

I'd like someone to tell me who wants open borders first.

I'm in favor of something pretty close to open borders, but it has to be paired with a significant cutback in our current socialism. Being physically in the US should guarantee you opportunity: nothing more and nothing less. If you can afford to stay here, then it's because you are adding to the economy and society, and I'm happy to have you.

I've spent a lot of time in Latin America, both Central and South. In many areas, opportunity simply doesn't exist. Something like subsistence farming is the only option. That sucks.

I'm in favor of people being rewarded more for what they do than for where they happen to have been born.

And it is quite disingenuous to pretend that the problems in Central America are 100% the fault of the people there are 0% the fault of US policy. I mean, that giant caravan of migrant refugees that so many here think is a national emergency are only refugees at all because the Obama administration--and in particular Secretary of State Clinton--played an essential role in the success of the military coup in Honduras. Without our foreign policy, they would have been happy to stay in Honduras. I believe that what our elected officials did in the name of the United States was evil, and so yeah, I think that we might probably should feel some responsibility for their current situation.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Kut

CampingJosh said he was all about some open borders that’s why I bought it up!

Well, if he did say that, I disagree. I disagree with any type of open border, but I still maintain that opposing a wall does not default to wanting open borders. As distasteful as it is to think, I'd prefer a militarized border over a stupid wall.

 

[BigRed]

Jailing the idiots who hire them would work 1000x better.

It's not an "either or".

Do both.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I'm in favor of something pretty close to open borders, but it has to be paired with a significant cutback in our current socialism. Being physically in the US should guarantee you opportunity: nothing more and nothing less. If you can afford to stay here, then it's because you are adding to the economy and society, and I'm happy to have you.

I've spent a lot of time in Latin America, both Central and South. In many areas, opportunity simply doesn't exist. Something like subsistence farming is the only option. That sucks.

I'm in favor of people being rewarded more for what they do than for where they happen to have been born.

And it is quite disingenuous to pretend that the problems in Central America are 100% the fault of the people there are 0% the fault of US policy. I mean, that giant caravan of migrant refugees that so many here think is a national emergency are only refugees at all because the Obama administration--and in particular Secretary of State Clinton--played an essential role in the success of the military coup in Honduras. Without our foreign policy, they would have been happy to stay in Honduras. I believe that what our elected officials did in the name of the United States was evil, and so yeah, I think that we might probably should feel some responsibility for their current situation.

I understand your point. I also understand that we (the US) have played a pretty significant role in fouling up Central and South America. Despite that, I am unwilling to penalize everyday Americans for the missteps of government. We enjoy one the best standards of living in the world; one that far surpasses that in many of the areas mentioned previously. While I have no doubt that open borders would bring a lot of honest, hard working people, there's a catch. Those honest hard working people would be happy with wages that are pennies on a dollar to your average American worker. In my opinion, that's a recipe for disaster, via the downgrading of the standard of living Americans are used to. Do I sympathize certainly, but my default, is "if you want a better place to live and work, make those changes yourself."

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Well, if he did say that, I disagree. I disagree with any type of open border, but I still maintain that opposing a wall does not default to wanting open borders. As distasteful as it is to think, I'd prefer a militarized border over a stupid wall.

And how do you think the left would react if trump decided to militarize the border? Seems a small taste of this has happened in recent memory, and the reaction was priceless

 

[CampingJosh]

I understand your point. I also understand that we (the US) have played a pretty significant role in fouling up Central and South America. Despite that, I am unwilling to penalize everyday Americans for the missteps of government. We enjoy one the best standards of living in the world; one that far surpasses that in many of the areas mentioned previously. While I have no doubt that open borders would bring a lot of honest, hard working people, there's a catch. Those honest hard working people would be happy with wages that are pennies on a dollar to your average American worker. In my opinion, that's a recipe for disaster, via the downgrading of the standard of living Americans are used to.

Elections have consequences, or so I've heard. We put them into power (even if nearly no one here voted for Obama).

It would be better if the majority of people around the world had good economic opportunities at home; I think most can agree on that. But I will say that I think the US is nowhere close to our capacity for skilled workers, and pretty much any who come here could start working without significantly depressing wages.

Like I've said every time, something close to open borders.

Do I sympathize certainly, but my default, is "if you want a better place to live and work, make those changes yourself."

They have been trying; we have been actively working against them since about the time of the Haitian Revolution. Can't hold that against them.

 

[Twangbanger]

...And it is quite disingenuous to pretend that the problems in Central America are 100% the fault of the people there are 0% the fault of US policy. I mean, that giant caravan of migrant refugees that so many here think is a national emergency are only refugees at all because the Obama administration--and in particular Secretary of State Clinton--played an essential role in the success of the military coup in Honduras. Without our foreign policy, they would have been happy to stay in Honduras. I believe that what our elected officials did in the name of the United States was evil, and so yeah, I think that we might probably should feel some responsibility for their current situation.

Wait...(snicker)..., okay, okay...(<Deep Breath>): we're supposed to extend US asylum for poor people, from countries (...I'm sorry, excuse me for a minute...) ...which have been f*cked over by incompetent Democrat US foreign policy...

 

[Brad69]

I agree with CampingJosh and I believe the President Trump does as well. If a person needs and wants a opportunity you get in line and take your chances! It still remains a fact you do not have a country without borders, common language and culture.
Many of our recent ancestors lived in situations no better than the current ones in central and South America. We overcame the challenges presented.
One sad fact is that the conditions would be better if the US would have colonized Central and South America. This IMO would have been better than the selective intervention we have engaged in.
We as a country cannot allow unmitigated migration into our country by overstayed VISA’s or walking a crossed any border. How we prevent this is open to debate but not the fact it must stop illegal immigration or we as a country we fall into disrepair and be no better than a 3rd world state.

 

[KG1]

This is getting good.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I agree with CampingJosh and I believe the President Trump does as well. If a person needs and wants a opportunity you get in line and take your chances! It still remains a fact you do not have a country without borders, common language and culture.
Many of our recent ancestors lived in situations no better than the current ones in central and South America. We overcame the challenges presented.
One sad fact is that the conditions would be better if the US would have colonized Central and South America. This IMO would have been better than the selective intervention we have engaged in.
We as a country cannot allow unmitigated migration into our country by overstayed VISA’s or walking a crossed any border. How we prevent this is open to debate but not the fact it must stop illegal immigration or we as a country we fall into disrepair and be no better than a 3rd world state.

The conditions would have been better if we had just left them alone. A lot of the blame sits squarely on the Monroe Doctrine (later interpretations).

 

[CampingJosh]

Wait...(snicker)..., okay, okay...(<Deep Breath>): we're supposed to extend US asylum for poor people, from countries (...I'm sorry, excuse me for a minute...) ...which have been f*cked over by incompetent Democrat US foreign policy...

Thank you for your considered response.

 

[Brad69]

The US mettled in the area way too much.
Reference the “banana wars” this has went on for many years to include the 1965 invasion of the Dominican Republic that its almost unknown
BTW 44 American’s died.
I still believe that we could have left the poor countries alone or made them states what we did was not the right COA IMO. We would be a unbelievable force if we had just took control of the entire region instead of stupid actions.

 

[IndyDave1776]

On a serious note, why? Sure I think he's the most incompetent president ever to hold the office, but concerning this situation, he went as far as he could. He made an good effort to deliver on a promise, but it got to the point that his attempt wasn't going to play out the way he wanted. Sometimes it's good to know when to jump off a sinking ship.

Allow me to introduce Warren Harding and Jimmy Carter if you are looking for incompetent.