Trump 2024 ???

[KG1]

That was not directed personally to you, just in general. I firmly believe the reason NOTHING was done in the election aftermath was because those that are not leftists were too quiet, made no demands, and sat complacently on their hands the sidelines. (Usually asking for evidence or court rulings though evidence of a level to get warrants and subpoenas was all around.)

If all Trump voters had demanded equally to the leftists there would have been greater need for the establishment to respond. But with nose holder voters sitting on their hands the left had the field largely to themselves and they defended it vigorously. The hand sitting nose holders are still doing it…

Hey IM I respect your perspective and I will not argue against it because I find it to have a certain amount of merit that I agree with just like some of your previous posts on the matter.

 

[BugI02]

Got it. What the constitution says doesn’t have any power. WOW! So why did the framers say that it should be done as directed by the legislature if anyone can make any process they wish to? So if states decide that the second only applies to their militia that would be cool as well?

I don't think you're arguing any point he is making, Mike. I don't believe he is disputing the constitution says state legislatures determine how their elections are conducted, much as the senate and house are allowed to set their own procedural rules. What he seems to be saying is if those legislatures have (unwisely) invested that power in the office of SoS, then they cannot argue that any election was conducted unconstitutionally unless and until they claw back that authority. If the empowerment of the SoS was done within the confines of the state's constitution, and consultation with the legislature to approve changes was not written into that empowerment, they're stuck - hoist by their own petard

 

[Ingomike]

I don't think you're arguing any point he is making, Mike. I don't believe he is disputing the constitution says state legislatures determine how their elections are conducted, much as the senate and house are allowed to set their own procedural rules. What he seems to be saying is if those legislatures have (unwisely) invested that power in the office of SoS, then they cannot argue that any election was conducted unconstitutionally unless and until they claw back that authority. If the empowerment of the SoS was done within the confines of the state's constitution, and consultation with the legislature to approve changes was not written into that empowerment, they're stuck - hoist by their own petard

Ok. Why would he be making that point? The Wisconsin drop off ballot boxes case definitely did not have that element and I believe the Pennsylvania case did not as well. That was likely the case some states but not the states I am talking about and referencing in the discussion…

 

[BugI02]

In those specific cases it is likely the plaintiff in any legal proceeding would have to be a resident of the affected state in order to have standing (remember how the Texas election challenge was slapped down) so if those particular states do not/did not have a valid challenge to those changes then the actions likely will stand - and no court is likely to try to retroactively change any election outcomes. The only possible changes are to future elections. The Dems did their homework on how the limited time frame would allow them to get away with murder

I'm thinking it will be more important to have well funded conservative organizations ready and willing to fund legal challenges from start to finish going forward if we expect individuals in those states to step up and undertake legal challenges to sketchy things happening in their state

 

[Ingomike]

In those specific cases it is likely the plaintiff in any legal proceeding would have to be a resident of the affected state in order to have standing (remember how the Texas election challenge was slapped down) so if those particular states do not/did not have a valid challenge to those changes then the actions likely will stand - and no court is likely to try to retroactively change any election outcomes. The only possible changes are to future elections. The Dems did their homework on how the limited time frame would allow them to get away with murder

I'm thinking it will be more important to have well funded conservative organizations ready and willing to fund legal challenges from start to finish going forward if we expect individuals in those states to step up and undertake legal challenges to sketchy things happening in their state

This is a case I have referenced many times. The article details the circumstances going on at the time. Though an opinion piece that I disagree with the details seem accurate as I recall.

“In September, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, in an opinion by Justice Max Baer for a 4-3 court, extended the day that mail-in ballots could be received.”

“As long as such ballots were mailed by election day, Tuesday, Nov. 3 and received by Friday, Nov. 6, the ballots would be counted. The U.S. Supreme Court subsequently refused to stay the decision.”

“But this refusal was misleading. Justice Samuel Alito, joined by Justices Clarence Thomas and Neil Gorsuch, wrote that “there is a strong likelihood” that the three-day extension of receipt of ballots ordered by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court “violates the Federal Constitution.”

“Justice Alito did not rely on this Equal Protection rationale. Instead, he cited a principle from a concurrence by Chief Justice William Rehnquist, joined by Justices Antonin Scalia and Thomas—that the Florida Supreme Court had substituted its judgment for that of the Florida legislature, in violation of Art. II, Section 1 of the Constitution, which gives state legislatures the authority to determine how Presidential electors are chosen.”

“Alito similarly objected that the three-day extension at issue now “squarely alters an important statutory provision enacted by the Pennsylvania Legislature pursuant to its authority under the Constitution.”

That the court chickens out and does not do anything because they fear the left will call them names does not change the constitutional facts.

 

[jamil]

In the end IM the state legislatures, even GOP led went along with the process and didn't say this is not how we're doing it. It was still ultimately up to them to make a stand and reject anything that usurped their constitutional authority as a whole before it came time for them to select the electors. They did not do so and I vehemently join in criticizing them for not doing so.

Not only that, but whenTrump allegedly went to to the Republican state legislatures to get them on board with the plan, they declined.

 

[BugI02]

So, Pennsylvania is quite byzantine, but as near as I can tell, their Secretary of the Commonwealth is the equivalent of a SoS and is in charge of elections. It does not look like he has the express authority to alter voting standards alone but he sits as the head of the 7 member 'voting standards development board' which IS empowered to determine election parameters for all types of voting (paper, electronic, absentee etc) with some language thrown in about equity etc. So if the SoC just implemented changes on his own authority, he likely doesn't have it unless the board rubber-stamped it but I didn't dig down far enough to see if he has emergency powers (since I think covid was the excuse here)

So, it might be possible to argue that proper procedures were not followed in extending the acceptance window for mail in votes, but I think the PA Supreme Court has already upheld the changes the SoC made in a different case so not sure an attempt to come at that from a different angle would be accepted, but the point is that any plaintiff seems like he would have to be a citizen of Pennsylvania and in order to overcome the existing ruling of the SCOPA would have to appeal at the appellate level or above and those courts might not accept the case because of that same stricture that election regulations are purely a state matter as long as they don't run afoul of the constitution

I think it would all turn on just how much power the state legislature delegated to the SoC on elections and I don't really want to dig any further. I think the important point is the legal barriers to a challenge are quite high and it might have to be someone already a member of the legislature bringing the challenge that he had exceeded his authority in order to have standing

 

[jamil]

This is a case I have referenced many times. The article details the circumstances going on at the time. Though an opinion piece that I disagree with the details seem accurate as I recall.

“In September, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, in an opinion by Justice Max Baer for a 4-3 court, extended the day that mail-in ballots could be received.”

“As long as such ballots were mailed by election day, Tuesday, Nov. 3 and received by Friday, Nov. 6, the ballots would be counted. The U.S. Supreme Court subsequently refused to stay the decision.”

“But this refusal was misleading. Justice Samuel Alito, joined by Justices Clarence Thomas and Neil Gorsuch, wrote that “there is a strong likelihood” that the three-day extension of receipt of ballots ordered by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court “violates the Federal Constitution.”

“Justice Alito did not rely on this Equal Protection rationale. Instead, he cited a principle from a concurrence by Chief Justice William Rehnquist, joined by Justices Antonin Scalia and Thomas—that the Florida Supreme Court had substituted its judgment for that of the Florida legislature, in violation of Art. II, Section 1 of the Constitution, which gives state legislatures the authority to determine how Presidential electors are chosen.”

“Alito similarly objected that the three-day extension at issue now “squarely alters an important statutory provision enacted by the Pennsylvania Legislature pursuant to its authority under the Constitution.”

That the court chickens out and does not do anything because they fear the left will call them names does not change the constitutional facts.

We live in the world that is. If you can figure out a way to make this world work the way it should, I’m all ears. But if you’re going to just claim in frustration that everyone else is asleep, that’s just not gonna do it.

 

[Super Bee]

 

[KG1]

We live in the world that is. If you can figure out a way to make this world work the way it should, I’m all ears. But if you’re going to just claim in frustration that everyone else is asleep, that’s just not gonna do it.

C.mon jamil. You don't know what time it is....

 

[oze]

He ****ed up by rushing through an experimental vaccine, maybe causing countless injuries, and is still proud of it. Republican voters need to be reminded of this.

 

[jamil]

C.mon jamil. You don't know what time it is....

Wait. Tim Cook is in on it too? So you’re telling me the time on my microwave is correct? It’s my Apple Watch that’s wrong?

 

[KG1]

Wait. Tim Cook is in on it too? So you’re telling me the time on my microwave is correct? It’s my Apple Watch that’s wrong?

Well I'm sure I'll get a good dressing down for ribbing you with that oft heard line here for not being serious enough about the issues 24/7. I have a bad ticker; I can't always get so worked up into a frothy frenzy. That doesn't mean I don't care about the **** spin we are in.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

He ****ed up by rushing through an experimental vaccine, maybe causing countless injuries, and is still proud of it. Republican voters need to be reminded of this.

Lots and lots of republicans have no problem with any of this. This is the problem.

 

[KG1]

It was "perfect"

 

[KLB]

I was great. The bad stuff is other people's fault!

 

[DragonGunner]

So let’s say all people agree it was covid and not cancer, flu, ….killing people, and let’s say it killed millions and millions of Americans and Trump didn’t fast track big pharma. Blame Trump, he should have fast tracked the jab! Or let’s say big pharma jab had actually worked and stopped covid dead in its tracks. Who knew the future? And who are the pro Monday quarterbacks? Well I guess Trump knew millions were not going to die, and knew the jab wasn’t going to work as it should. Monday quarterbacking is all I keep hearing repeatedly. Don’t like Trump, vote for Biden. Oh wait, they hated Trump enough they did. If you’re looking for a perfect leader then you’re going to have just keep waiting on Messiah to return, cause until then it’s not happening.

 

[KG1]

Trump's favorite word to describe everything he does is "perfect' He's the one trying to pass himself off as "perfect." Others are merely pointing out that he's not "perfect."

 

[Ingomike]

He doesn’t get the credit he deserves because the left hates him and his side has a bunch of pansy nose holders that do not support him like they should.

He did as much as a President can clearing the runway for the medical/science (folks he could not hire or fire) people to take off and save the world.

 

[KLB]

So let’s say all people agree it was covid and not cancer, flu, ….killing people, and let’s say it killed millions and millions of Americans and Trump didn’t fast track big pharma. Blame Trump, he should have fast tracked the jab! Or let’s say big pharma jab had actually worked and stopped covid dead in its tracks. Who knew the future? And who are the pro Monday quarterbacks? Well I guess Trump knew millions were not going to die, and knew the jab wasn’t going to work as it should. Monday quarterbacking is all I keep hearing repeatedly. Don’t like Trump, vote for Biden. Oh wait, they hated Trump enough they did. If you’re looking for a perfect leader then you’re going to have just keep waiting on Messiah to return, cause until then it’s not happening.

This is not about blame for what happened. This is about claiming now, when we know better, that he made the right decisions and saved 100 million lives. Then he blames everyone else for any bad that came of it.