Trump 2024 ???

[jamil]

Why do you defend the trashing of the constitution so vigorously? The votes were not obtained constitutionally. For example, the Wisconsin Supreme Court said so, albeit years after the election.

That's a pretty far out mischaracterization of what anyone else is saying.

What did the Wisconsin Supreme Court order? Did they order a do-over? Did they order a recertification?

 

[jamil]

Did you not see my post earlier today where I pasted in part of it?

Point being it doesn't take a constitutional scholar to understand how electors are determined, the language is pretty clear, and if those electors were determined in THE way the legislature directed,that too is easily discernible.

No court needed…

You asked me to show you the word in the constitution. I told you one of the places it's found.

Has it occurred to you that not everyone would agree that it was not done contrary to the law? Does Mike get to stand up and say, uh, guys, this wasn't done right. And then they just say, oh, yeah, damn. Yer right. Okay, let's have a do over.

 

[Ingomike]

Don't you have to prove somewhere that the election was not run as directed? Wouldn't that be the courts? I really am at a loss for why you think like this. It's very unconstitutional thinking.

First we have a much bigger disconnect than I imagined.

So the NM governor has not violated the second with her decree? A court has not said she has done something wrong, so how could she?

We here have little trouble identifying the usurpation of constitutional rights.

I have no idea why SCOTUS would not touch the constitutional violations. I have suspicions but that is it. I think Roberts, or maybe most of them, were afraid the left would burn DC down if they got involved in any way that helped Trump.

 

[Ingomike]

That's a pretty far out mischaracterization of what anyone else is saying.

What did the Wisconsin Supreme Court order? Did they order a do-over? Did they order a recertification?

Aren’t you the funny one.

They said they were illegal.

“The Wisconsin Supreme Court has ruled that most ballot drop boxes aren't allowed in the state and that a voter can't have someone else return — in person — their completed absentee ballot on their behalf.“

“The high court's ruling Friday, which comes one month before the swing state's primary elections, is a loss for voting rights groups and disability advocates.”

“The decision is the latest in a legal battle that began in January, after a Waukesha County judge sided with a conservative legal group in a lawsuit, declaring state law doesn't allow for unstaffed ballot drop boxes and requires that voters physically return their own absentee ballots.”

https://www.npr.org/2022/07/08/1100696685/wisconsin-supreme-court-ballot-drop-boxes-disability-assistance

 

[Ingomike]

You asked me to show you the word in the constitution. I told you one of the places it's found.

Has it occurred to you that not everyone would agree that it was not done contrary to the law? Does Mike get to stand up and say, uh, guys, this wasn't done right. And then they just say, oh, yeah, damn. Yer right. Okay, let's have a do over.

Pennsylvania bureaucrats changed the dates and did not follow the law that the legislature directed. Not much interpretation to that, the election either was performed on the dates as the legislature directed or it was not.

Why did the framers say who was to direct the election in the constitution if it is unenforceable? This seems like how the left looks at the second amendment…

 

[jamil]

Fani's Scam: Electors Were Not ‘Fake’ - The American Spectator | USA News and PoliticsThe American Spectator | USA News and Politics

Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis’ RICO indictment charges Donald Trump and 18 others with criminally conspiring to overturn Georgia’s 2020

spectator.org

I mean. I read it the last time you posted it. It hasn't gotten any better. I have not read Willis's indictment. I haven't really taken that one very seriously.

The "fake elector" thing could be real, or maybe Smith overstated it in his DC indictment. It smells like there could be something to it. The Eastman document kinda lays that out. And like I've said, I suspect that Pence is a major contributor to the prosecution. He's a lot of things, all lousy, but lying about something like that doesn't ring true. He's the ultra self-righteous do-gooder. He probably only ****s up and down and says a prayer before.

First we have a much bigger disconnect than I imagined.

So the NM governor has not violated the second with her decree? A court has not said she has done something wrong, so how could she?

We here have little trouble identifying the usurpation of constitutional rights.

I have no idea why SCOTUS would not touch the constitutional violations. I have suspicions but that is it. I think Roberts, or maybe most of them, were afraid the left would burn DC down if they got involved in any way that helped Trump.

Of course the HBIC of NM violated the US constitution. She also violated the NM constitutional which is even more explicit on gun rights. So what’s the remedy? Well. I suspect that Mike saying “that’s unconstitutional!!!” Isn’t going to convince her. Likely it will either involve the courts, the legislature to impeach her, or both.

See how that works?

 

[Ziggidy]

No. How a state runs an election is not covered by the Constitution. It may be unlawful, but that again has to play out in state court.

Is there not a difference between what the states are free to do? There are state elections and federal elections. Are we certain the states can manipulate as they see fit any federal election? I am struggling with the idea that it is being suggested the states can manipulate federal elections. For example, can a non-citizen vote in a federal election?

 

[KLB]

Is there not a difference between what the states are free to do? There are state elections and federal elections. Are we certain the states can manipulate as they see fit any federal election? I am struggling with the idea that it is being suggested the states can manipulate federal elections. For example, can a non-citizen vote in a federal election?

Yes. It is up to the states how they run their elections. This is part of the reason why the Ds were trying to pass their law to make everyone follow their rules.

For example, can a non-citizen vote in a federal election?

No. There is a federal law that specifically addresses that. In most places they can't vote in any election.

 

[KLB]

Got it. What the constitution says doesn’t have any power. WOW! So why did the framers say that it should be done as directed by the legislature if anyone can make any process they wish to?

You are going to give yourself an aneurism.

You are so hung up on "it's unConstitutional!" The Constitution says it is up to the States. That means it is up to the States to figure out their . You don't like how it turned out so you yell "it's unConstitutional!" at anything anyone says that does not agree with you. The truth is, you are playing 6 degrees of separation from the Constitution.

So if states decide that the second only applies to their militia that would be cool as well?

Courts have already ruled on that one.

 

[jamil]

Aren’t you the funny one.

They said they were illegal.

“The Wisconsin Supreme Court has ruled that most ballot drop boxes aren't allowed in the state and that a voter can't have someone else return — in person — their completed absentee ballot on their behalf.“

“The high court's ruling Friday, which comes one month before the swing state's primary elections, is a loss for voting rights groups and disability advocates.”

“The decision is the latest in a legal battle that began in January, after a Waukesha County judge sided with a conservative legal group in a lawsuit, declaring state law doesn't allow for unstaffed ballot drop boxes and requires that voters physically return their own absentee ballots.”

https://www.npr.org/2022/07/08/1100696685/wisconsin-supreme-court-ballot-drop-boxes-disability-assistance

But what came of it WRT the 2020 election?

 

[jamil]

Pennsylvania bureaucrats changed the dates and did not follow the law that the legislature directed. Not much interpretation to that, the election either was performed on the dates as the legislature directed or it was not.

Why did the framers say who was to direct the election in the constitution if it is unenforceable? This seems like how the left looks at the second amendment…

Okay. So lets relate this to football to illustrate. A lineman holds a DT. The DT declares that he’s been held and marks the spot. And then marches off 10 yards from the spot. Is that how it works when there are two competing sides? Or does a presumably neutral party have to make that call?

 

[KG1]

I think we can all agree that something hinky to a certain extent was going on that we're not happy with but in the end the state legislatures selected the electors that were certified and sent to congress and all of the states, even those GOP led states in question declined to reconsider those slates and were not swayed in favor of choosing alternate electors when Trump and Eastman tried to get them to do so before congress tallied those certifications on J6.

I even made the point in a previous posting that after their attempt was unsuccessful, they bypassed those state legislatures and submitted their own uncertified "alternate" slates without the backing of state government directly to congress which were then rejected. Some can even make the argument that what they did was unconstitutional because they had no constitutional authority over state legislatures to do so.

We can argue the constitutionality of the process and I'm all for it. The state legislators ultimately made the call though and stood by their election process and subsequent certifications that were affirmed by congress which no court has overturned.

So in the end it could be said that those state legislatures were the constitutionally determining factor when they selected the slate of electors based upon their state election outcome that were then certified and sent to congress.

As always all are welcome to civilly respond to my post sans the personal attacks.

 

[Ingomike]

The Constitution says it is up to the States.

No it does not. I have posted the quote from the constitution here several times and the word state or states is not there. It does specifically say, “legislature”. Any election where another entity directs something different than the legislature is unconstitutional.

Why even debate this clear point?

 

[Ingomike]

but in the end the state legislatures selected the electors

The state legislators ultimately made the call though and stood by their election process and subsequent certifications

No they did not. The swing state SOS, governor, even state courts made agreements with democrat election lawyer Mark Elias on mail in ballots, due dates, all not directed by the legislature, the specific branch the constitution spelled out to direct, the selection of electors.

I suspect our founders chose the legislature to direct the selection of electors so just what happened would not happen, that is a political faction, big city dems in this case, would control the process to their advantage without all the people having a say…

 

[KG1]

No they did not. The swing state SOS, governor, even state courts made agreements with democrat election lawyer Mark Elias on mail in ballots, due dates, all not directed by the legislature, the specific branch the constitution spelled out to direct, the selection of electors.

I suspect our founders chose the legislature to direct the selection of electors so just what happened would not happen, that is a political faction, big city dems in this case, would control the process to their advantage without all the people having a say…

In the end IM the state legislatures, even GOP led went along with the process and didn't say this is not how we're doing it. It was still ultimately up to them to make a stand and reject anything that usurped their constitutional authority as a whole before it came time for them to select the electors. They did not do so and I vehemently join in criticizing them for not doing so.

 

[foszoe]

Okay. So lets relate this to football to illustrate. A lineman holds a DT. The DT declares that he’s been held and marks the spot. And then marches off 10 yards from the spot. Is that how it works when there are two competing sides? Or does a presumably neutral party have to make that call?

So it's like call your own fouls in playground basketball and the HOA calls the fouls just or unjust but can't enforce their judgment

 

[Ingomike]

In the end IM the state legislatures, even GOP led went along with the process and didn't say this is not how we're doing it. It was still ultimately up to them to make a stand and reject anything that usurped their constitutional authority before it came time for them to select the electors, and they did not do so.

Again, not true. Several state legislatures were told they did not have standing, legislators individually, and their families and or businesses were threatened it is easy to say what you say now but in 2020 it was different.

I am far more disgusted by comments I read here than by anything the left has done…

 

[Ingomike]

So it's like call your own fouls in playground basketball

Actually it is. That is why EVERYONE in government takes an oath to protect and defend the constitution. If everyone was not supposed to evaluate all actions they decide or are instructed to take as to the constitutionality there would be no need for the oath…

 

[KG1]

Again, not true. Several state legislatures were told they did not have standing, legislators individually, and their families and or businesses were threatened it is easy to say what you say now but in 2020 it was different.

I am far more disgusted by comments I read here than by anything the left has done…

Hey you can be disgusted all you want with my comments, be that as it may I'm not happy with how everything went down either, and I'm just as concerned about the usurpation of state's legislature's constitutional authority and the abdication to it that followed. That's my opinion. The founders would have staunchly stood in the breach no matter what the consequences.

 

[Ingomike]

Hey you can be disgusted all you want with my comments, be that as it may I'm not happy with how everything went down as well, and I'm just as concerned about the usurpation of state's legislature's constitutional authority and the abdication to it that followed. That's my opinion. The founders would have staunchly stood in the breach no matter what the consequences.

That was not directed personally to you, just in general. I firmly believe the reason NOTHING was done in the election aftermath was because those that are not leftists were too quiet, made no demands, and sat complacently on their hands the sidelines. (Usually asking for evidence or court rulings though evidence of a level to get warrants and subpoenas was all around.)

If all Trump voters had demanded equally to the leftists there would have been greater need for the establishment to respond. But with nose holder voters sitting on their hands the left had the field largely to themselves and they defended it vigorously. The hand sitting nose holders are still doing it…