To those who say Republicans are no different than Democrats

[DragonGunner]

What I am saying is those who voted third party are getting what they asked for by thinking voting for a third party helped this country. The majority spoke who were getting free stuff, those who have white guilt and those who were uneducated, that just because Obama was a democrat, they believed his lies.

Like I said many times in this thread, those who want a third party cannot wait until the summer of 2016 to help get that candidate elected.

But voting for a 3rd party may of helped this country. The (R) should now see that putting a Progressive McCain and a Moderate Romney isn't working........why????? They see (R) not coming to vote OR voting for 3rd party. This country has gone to the far left, when America wakes up and sees that being far left isn't working they are going to look for answers from someone else....if the (R) keep being LUKEWARM I hope more (R) leave the party till it dies and a 3rd party can win.....I hope both party's die to be honest and a good American stands up to take the lead. If that happens it won't matter what party he runs under, the people will vote him in. A lot of people don't vote, if those who don't vote saw such a man running and decided to vote they could get him in office. Being 3rd party wouldn't be a problem....in fact it could help.

 

[IndyDave1776]

But voting for a 3rd party may of helped this country. The (R) should now see that putting a Progressive McCain and a Moderate Romney isn't working........why????? They see (R) not coming to vote OR voting for 3rd party. This country has gone to the far left, when America wakes up and sees that being far left isn't working they are going to look for answers from someone else....if the (R) keep being LUKEWARM I hope more (R) leave the party till it dies and a 3rd party can win.....I hope both party's die to be honest and a good American stands up to take the lead. If that happens it won't matter what party he runs under, the people will vote him in. A lot of people don't vote, if those who don't vote saw such a man running and decided to vote they could get him in office. Being 3rd party wouldn't be a problem....in fact it could help.

I largely agree, however, it seems that they should have figured it out after Bush Sr. and Bob Dole both got their asses handed to them.

 

[Survivalcookie]

Well dont think that a vote for Republicans helped this country either. We are, where we are at today, because of Reps AND Dems. Why do you still want to blame us?

Because another Obama term was the icing on the cake to finish our country off...if you don't see that I have no Idea what to tell you.

 

[Survivalcookie]

I did and I found the similarities to be rather uncanny and I am not the only person that has noticed it. Regardless, both laws are a huge intrusion of government into people's lives. Both include the individual mandate, again a huge intrusion of government. As far as I am concerned, that letter next to the name on the ballot does not exonerate anything.



I put more stock into a politician's record that I do with a questionnaire that the politician answered. Their records give an insight in how they would govern as president. In my opinion, the records show that Johnson was a much better candidate. While Romney might have slowed down the downward spiral, I think Johnson might have stopped or even reversed it.

I did not dig to deep to get this info, I am sure if I looked I could find a better source.
The Man Who Wrote the Blueprint for Obamacare from His Prison Cell | NewsReal Blog

The problem is Johnson did not have a chance in hell of winning. he started to late in the game.

 

[Survivalcookie]

Two sides of the same coin. Both sides want many of the same things but just for different reasons.

High gas prices: check
Open borders: check

There's more, but I stopped caring enough to waste time thinking about it any more. The older I get the more I hate politics. I just live my life and let God control all those things. What we get as a nation, good or bad, is what we ultimately deserve.

Thats to bad for you...I have grandchildren who I would like to grow up in a country where they have an opportunity to succeed...not a third world county like Obama is trying to achieve in the memory of his father.

 

[Survivalcookie]

But voting for a 3rd party may of helped this country. The (R) should now see that putting a Progressive McCain and a Moderate Romney isn't working........why????? They see (R) not coming to vote OR voting for 3rd party. This country has gone to the far left, when America wakes up and sees that being far left isn't working they are going to look for answers from someone else....if the (R) keep being LUKEWARM I hope more (R) leave the party till it dies and a 3rd party can win.....I hope both party's die to be honest and a good American stands up to take the lead. If that happens it won't matter what party he runs under, the people will vote him in. A lot of people don't vote, if those who don't vote saw such a man running and decided to vote they could get him in office. Being 3rd party wouldn't be a problem....in fact it could help.

That would be nice but never going to happen....Obama so far has spent his second term doing fundraisers and campaigning to get more money and votes for his party.

 

[Libertarian01]

To All,

I think what has helped me in my voting is that I am no longer afraid!

I refuse to vote out of fear of some candidate I don't like getting into office.

I will vote for whom I agree with philosophically the most and if I loose I can live with that, because I voted for whom I believed in.

And IF my candidates never win, I am OK with that. I will stand alone on my island, in my bunker, to the last. Because I realized that voting out of fear never allows us to take off the blinders and see what is happening from both sides of the aisle. To a greater and less extent from some over others, but nonetheless from both sides. Is Obamacare bad? Yes. Worse than the socialized health care Prescription Drug Plan under Bush and a MAJORITY of Republicans? Yes. But so what? Both moved us in a direction AWAY from smaller government and a free market. Both did damage.

I am not afraid of this country falling apart because I know that when it does we will be able to rebuild it with clarity and hindsight that will guide us toward repeating the same mistakes over again. Will it hurt? YOU BETCHA! But so what? It is moving in that direction from both sides of the aisle.

Now, when I say both sides I do not mean the man/woman in the street D or R! I mean the party machines that are kept in place by people too afraid of the other side to dare to step off of the train.

There are many many people out there with way more courage than I have. I am by far not the bravest around by any means. But in the voting booth I have no fear of who will be elected. I have the courage there to vote for what I believe is right and thank Almighty God that I was born in a nation that vowed to protect my right to vote and NOT my candidate to win.

Regards,

Doug

 

[ZombieApocolypse]

Because another Obama term was the icing on the cake to finish our country off...if you don't see that I have no Idea what to tell you.

You might as well get out of this country then, since it's finished.

The fact that for some reason you think Romney would have been different (because he's an R?) boggles the mind.

over 75% of the things Obama is doing that people dont like were started when an R was president, what would Romney be doing to change anything?

 

[zippy23]

There is NO QUESTION that romney would have been different. if a bill came to his desk that was repealing obamacare, HE WOULD HAVE SIGNED IT, would he have allowed the gov't to target tea party people? benhgazi? NSA? all the ridiculous crap happening right now? NO, would he be IN FAVOR of banning guns? NO, so literally sit there and say romney is no different is absolutely laughable. There is too much money in politics. A few people on here have said the same thing regarding the country..."obama would drive us off the cliff with the gas pedal on the floor, romney would have done it riding the brakes", this is correct, so let me ask you.....Do you want romney? or Obama? Because voting third party does NOTHING, and staying home does NOTHING, other than allow more votes for obama. Again, i hate that this is the way it is, and you cant blame me for voting R and not third party, when no third party will win the white house because of the MONEY, you dont have enough, third party candidates dont get enough, and there it is. so by not voting against obama for a guy with the best chance who would have been a rubber stamp for the republican party, we are here today. They want your guns, they already have your health care, they have your phone records and emails, they use the IRS to hold you down, they blame AMERICA for the muslims killing our own people...need i go on? sorry but delaying the inevitable was our best chance. it sounds terrible, but thats the truth, so if you are already prepping for the downfall, why not delay it? Instead of doing nothing, which helps to speed it up. simple as that.

 

[Expat]

I see this thread is still rolling...

As to third parties, I would just point this out. The Libertarian party didn't even get 1% of the vote. It appears that 4-5x that many conservatives didn't vote because they were unimpressed with Romney. So most people will just stay home rather than vote for a 3rd party candidate.

 

[Bummer]

I posted that purely for the major issues for the US not all candidates just Romney and Johnson

Perhaps you should have read the entire page more carefully.

as you can tell they both were about equal on the issues.

I'm afraid I don't see 88 and 53 as being "about equal". Tell you what, you apparently sell something, when you charge $88 I'll give you $53 and we can see if that's about equal.

I looked carefully at why each candidate said "yes" or "no". That is where the real meat of the issues can be found. Libertarians say no for completely different reasons than Republicans, by and large. Those differences are critically important. Romney has been shown to say no one day and yes the next because his principles are more flexible. I want someone who will actually follow the Constitution, not the political wind.

I f wanted Cain, but I voted for Romney.,

Cain wasn't really pro-Constitution either. There was only one man on the Republican stage for whom I'd have voted. He was the man with a lifetime record of supporting the Constitution.

I wanted anyone who could have a chance to defeat Obama...that was my number one objective was to get him out of office.

Looks like that worked about as well for you as it did for me. It's a shame the Republican rank and file weren't (aren't?) ready to come to their senses and cast off the CINOs with whom they're so enamored.

And Johnson is a republican who calls himself a libertarian.

And Ron Paul is a Libertarian who calls himself a Republican. Turns out labels are of little value when one can compare voting records and long term political directions. Again, I'll pick the guy with the pro-Constitution voting record.

I did not dig to deep to get this info, I am sure if I looked I could find a better source.
The Man Who Wrote the Blueprint for Obamacare from His Prison Cell | NewsReal Blog

Your link does not say Creamer wrote Obama Care, it says he wrote that universal health care was a key to the Democrats gaining power over the Republicans.

Further Googling shows us that Richard Nixon explored the individual mandate concept of health care reform. George H W Bush was a strong supporter of the individual mandate with more details added. George W Bush had a still more expansive health care reform plan. Romneycare took the individual mandate plans combined and expanded upon them. Obama Care took Romneycare and expanded upon that. Like it or not, there's a lot of Republican influence in that Democrat idea.

Libertarians, on the other hand, can't seem to find "universal health care" mentioned anywhere in the Constitution.

None of this addresses the point that Obama won with a fairly large margin over everybody else, so the argument that the third party vote helped him win is obviously nonsense.

 

[Dauvis]

I did not dig to deep to get this info, I am sure if I looked I could find a better source.
The Man Who Wrote the Blueprint for Obamacare from His Prison Cell | NewsReal Blog

The problem is Johnson did not have a chance in hell of winning. he started to late in the game.

I don't see how your link disproves that Romneycare provided the framework for Obamacare. All it does is paint the guy as a criminal. Of course, that is besides the point because the real issue is that Romney signed a law that was a massive intrusion of government. Republican or not, I will not support that level of intrusion.

Yes, I was quite aware that Johnson would not win. I was okay with that. I would rather vote for the guy who might reverse the downward spiral over the guy who was forced upon us by the media and establishment.

To All,

I think what has helped me in my voting is that I am no longer afraid!

I refuse to vote out of fear of some candidate I don't like getting into office.

...


Regards,

Doug

Well said. If there were more people who would not give into the fear that the Republican establishment created (even that created by the Democrat establishment for that matter), this country could actually start moving in the right direction again.

Of all of the talk about the 3 million that stayed home, there is one scenario that seems to have been glossed over in this thread. What if they voted third party? My thought is that if 1/2 or even 1/3 of those who stay home voted for Johnson, the establishment Republicans would be excreting building materials. The dialog with in the party and the media would certainly be different. Maybe they would actually seriously talk about smaller government rather than granting amnesty to those who broke the law.

 

[Bummer]

There is NO QUESTION that romney would have been different.

Yes, he would have been. Paler, taller, completely different hair style. Obviously different. Better? Nobody can really say that. Well, not honestly anyway.

if a bill came to his desk that was repealing obamacare, HE WOULD HAVE SIGNED IT,

The Psychic Hotline needed you. They didn't see the bankruptcy coming. You seem to think you have the skillz they needed.

would he have allowed the gov't to target tea party people? benhgazi? NSA? all the ridiculous crap happening right now? NO,

You assume. Of course, you might have been right, but you can not know. Further, Romney spoke positively of the Patriot Act and the NSA in general. It seems he might very well have been in favor of the NSA's actions.

would he be IN FAVOR of banning guns? NO,

Hold it right there. Didn't Romney sign a gun control bill when he was Governor. Seems this one is a lot more questionable than the others.

so literally sit there and say romney is no different is absolutely laughable.

Yes, he would have been different. You can not say he would have been better.

"obama would drive us off the cliff with the gas pedal on the floor, romney would have done it riding the brakes", this is correct, so let me ask you.....Do you want romney? or Obama?

Exactly what part of NEITHER do you find so confusing?

Off the cliff is off the cliff.

Because voting third party does NOTHING, and staying home does NOTHING, other than allow more votes for obama.

No, a vote for a third party does not "allow more votes for obama".

Again, i hate that this is the way it is, and you cant blame me for voting R and not third party,

I have and will never blame you for voting for whomever you want. Your vote is your vote. Cast it for the man in the moon or don't cast it at all, I really do not care.

when no third party will win the white house because of the MONEY, you dont have enough, third party candidates dont get enough, and there it is. so by not voting against obama for a guy with the best chance who would have been a rubber stamp for the republican party, we are here today.

It is true that unlike the Democrats and Republicans, no third party candidate can buy an election. None the less, we are here today because of the people who voted FOR Obama.

Let me get out the fat crayons and try this again:

2012 election results.

Obama - 65,910,437

Romney - 60,932,795
Johnson - 1,275,951
Stein - 469,583
Goode - 122,001
Barr - 67,278
Anderson - 43,011
Hoefling - 40,586
Other - 217,669
Total votes NOT FOR Obama - 63,168,874

When adding all the non-Obama votes together we find that Obama won by 2,741,563 votes.

Again: If everyone who did not vote for Obama had voted for the same person, Obama would have still won by 2.7 MILLION votes.

That means your argument that the Libertarians lost you the election has absolutely no basis in fact whatsoever.

Are we having fun yet?

 

[Jomibe]

Thats to bad for you...I have grandchildren who I would like to grow up in a country where they have an opportunity to succeed...not a third world county like Obama is trying to achieve in the memory of his father.

The world will become what it will become regardless of what you do. I'm assuming you've been voting Republican for a long time, and yet here we are with Obama and a nation in moral decay -- so what exactly is your plan for your grandchildren? How is voting Republican going to give them the future you speak of?

I'm sorry, I understand you completely, I was there once too, but not a damn thing changes when a Republican is in the white house.

 

[hornadylnl]

The world will become what it will become regardless of what you do. I'm assuming you've been voting Republican for a long time, and yet here we are with Obama and a nation in moral decay -- so what exactly is your plan for your grandchildren? How is voting Republican going to give them the future you speak of?

I'm sorry, I understand you completely, I was there once too, but not a damn thing changes when a Republican is in the white house.

One thing changes. The minority party goes from complaining about the destruction to supporting it once their guy is in power.

 

[Bummer]

One thing changes. The minority party goes from complaining about the destruction to supporting it once their guy is in power.

Unfortunately that seems to be the one thing we can count on out of either major party.

 

[Survivalcookie]

Yes, he would have been. Paler, taller, completely different hair style. Obviously different. Better? Nobody can really say that. Well, not honestly anyway.



The Psychic Hotline needed you. They didn't see the bankruptcy coming. You seem to think you have the skillz they needed.



You assume. Of course, you might have been right, but you can not know. Further, Romney spoke positively of the Patriot Act and the NSA in general. It seems he might very well have been in favor of the NSA's actions.



Hold it right there. Didn't Romney sign a gun control bill when he was Governor. Seems this one is a lot more questionable than the others.



Yes, he would have been different. You can not say he would have been better.



Exactly what part of NEITHER do you find so confusing?

Off the cliff is off the cliff.



No, a vote for a third party does not "allow more votes for obama".



I have and will never blame you for voting for whomever you want. Your vote is your vote. Cast it for the man in the moon or don't cast it at all, I really do not care.



It is true that unlike the Democrats and Republicans, no third party candidate can buy an election. None the less, we are here today because of the people who voted FOR Obama.

Let me get out the fat crayons and try this again:

2012 election results.

Obama - 65,910,437

Romney - 60,932,795
Johnson - 1,275,951
Stein - 469,583
Goode - 122,001
Barr - 67,278
Anderson - 43,011
Hoefling - 40,586
Other - 217,669
Total votes NOT FOR Obama - 63,168,874

When adding all the non-Obama votes together we find that Obama won by 2,741,563 votes.

Again: If everyone who did not vote for Obama had voted for the same person, Obama would have still won by 2.7 MILLION votes.

That means your argument that the Libertarians lost you the election has absolutely no basis in fact whatsoever.

Are we having fun yet?

You should also add in the 3 million people who have voted republican before did not vote this time. Boom different outcome. Shows everyone's vote makes a difference. Last election made a big impact on me, it was the last thing my mother and I did together...a life long democrat she voted for Romney.

 

[bmbutch]

I'm sorry, I understand you completely, I was there once too, but not a damn thing changes when a Republican is in the white house.

While I wouldn't say nothing changes, but very little. I've been thinking similar, why can neither party hold the Whitehouse, House, &/or Senate? Not saying I'm jumping on Libertarian bandwagon, but dang we are going in the crapper!

 

[Survivalcookie]

The world will become what it will become regardless of what you do. I'm assuming you've been voting Republican for a long time, and yet here we are with Obama and a nation in moral decay -- so what exactly is your plan for your grandchildren? How is voting Republican going to give them the future you speak of?

I'm sorry, I understand you completely, I was there once too, but not a damn thing changes when a Republican is in the white house.

I am teaching my grandchildren the same morals and work ethic I was taught and I taught my children. I know Obama is out to turn our world into a third world country...that his his agenda. I will fight with my last breath, be it going door to door , making phone calls, demonstrations or picking up my gun.

I never voted a straight party line until Obama came on the scene. I held my breath knowing I had to do it. If a third party came out now and started working on the 2016 elections and I seen he was really different I might back him and work hard for him....it takes all of us working hard to make changes.

 

[Survivalcookie]

Perhaps you should have read the entire page more carefully.



I'm afraid I don't see 88 and 53 as being "about equal". Tell you what, you apparently sell something, when you charge $88 I'll give you $53 and we can see if that's about equal.

I looked carefully at why each candidate said "yes" or "no". That is where the real meat of the issues can be found. Libertarians say no for completely different reasons than Republicans, by and large. Those differences are critically important. Romney has been shown to say no one day and yes the next because his principles are more flexible. I want someone who will actually follow the Constitution, not the political wind.



Cain wasn't really pro-Constitution either. There was only one man on the Republican stage for whom I'd have voted. He was the man with a lifetime record of supporting the Constitution.



Looks like that worked about as well for you as it did for me. It's a shame the Republican rank and file weren't (aren't?) ready to come to their senses and cast off the CINOs with whom they're so enamored.



And Ron Paul is a Libertarian who calls himself a Republican. Turns out labels are of little value when one can compare voting records and long term political directions. Again, I'll pick the guy with the pro-Constitution voting record.



Your link does not say Creamer wrote Obama Care, it says he wrote that universal health care was a key to the Democrats gaining power over the Republicans.

Further Googling shows us that Richard Nixon explored the individual mandate concept of health care reform. George H W Bush was a strong supporter of the individual mandate with more details added. George W Bush had a still more expansive health care reform plan. Romneycare took the individual mandate plans combined and expanded upon them. Obama Care took Romneycare and expanded upon that. Like it or not, there's a lot of Republican influence in that Democrat idea.

Libertarians, on the other hand, can't seem to find "universal health care" mentioned anywhere in the Constitution.

None of this addresses the point that Obama won with a fairly large margin over everybody else, so the argument that the third party vote helped him win is obviously nonsense.

Universal heath care is the plan...Obama care was written to fail, it is the back door to universal care. A state plan like Romney care is different, if you don't like it leave the state...hard to leave the country.