Tippecanoe Co.'s MRAP

[stephen87]

It's not the odds, it's the stakes - INGO

It hasn't happened here yet so it never will - INGO.

When was the last lawyer killed, Kirk? You must feel pretty dumb carrying that useless gun around.

Ask and ye shall receive. I'm sure it wasn't the most recent, but less than a year ago...
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...office-gunman-arrested-cops-article-1.1846708

Personally, I disagree with PD having the MRAP. Give them all the TOOLS they need. If they NEED an MRAP, let them raise the money any other way besides taxes.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Ask and ye shall receive. I'm sure it wasn't the most recent, but less than a year ago...
Ky. lawyer fatally shot outside office, gunman arrested: cops - NY Daily News

Personally, I disagree with PD having the MRAP. Give them all the TOOLS they need. If they NEED an MRAP, let them raise the money any other way besides taxes.

Wasn't in Kirk's county. By his rules it is irrelevant and never happened.

How exactly should government services be funded, then?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Just watched Chicago PD and they put up a stone for the prostitute that died thanks to Intelligence section. I understand people have to die on fake tv shows, but, like the continual murder porn that is shown to cops, I think television causes police to get goofy toys as: 1. they think these television shows are reality and cops are dying left and right, 2. they watch television and see all the other cool kids have toys so they want them too.

Tippecanoe County in nearly 200 years has lost 2 deputies who were killed inside their own car, with their own guns in the year 1928. The Sheriff of Tippecanoe County cares so much about this loss that he does not memorialize their loss in any way down at 2640 Duncan Road, but instead gets a toy.

Got to have priorities I guess.

This county is not a slaughter pen like Indianapolis. We don't need to pay for this and should not.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Wasn't in Kirk's county. By his rules it is irrelevant and never happened.

Correct. The last Lafayette lawyer to be murdered was John Barce. No MRAP would have helped him.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

How exactly should government services be funded, then?

Service=taxes; silly toys=bake sales, ice cream social, blueberry festival, square dancing, inter alia.

 

[T.Lex]

BBI,

With all respect, is there any vehicle or tool in the US military arsenal (or heck - we can afford almost anything from anywhere) that you would consider "more than you realistically need"?

In another thread, the [strike]Sovs[/strike] Russians have a sweet new tank that has many different possible configurations. Would you support Club Fed buying a couple hundred of those and distributing them across America to deserving police forces?

Or the Rafale is a sweet airframe. Multirole, so it is capable of CAS for when those rioters REALLY need pushed back. Would look sweet with IMPD roundels. Would that be too much?

 

[Alpo]

When someone says: "We seriously need this", prior uses come to mind. Afghanistan? Sure. IED's and EFP's. Iraq too. Unfortunately, our men and women did what was requested of them without sufficient protection and while someone above blamed the beancounters, I blame one too many generals and too few armored vehicles.

But, that is sort of beside the point. Now we have too many MRAPs...and still the same number of generals, go figure.

But here we are in the heartland of the USA and where have heavy vehicles been needed in the past?

 

[ATM]

How exactly should government services be funded, then?

Voluntarily, of course. Was that a trick question?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

BBI,

With all respect, is there any vehicle or tool in the US military arsenal (or heck - we can afford almost anything from anywhere) that you would consider "more than you realistically need"?

Of course. We can take any concept to the edge of ridiculousness. However we aren't talking about tanks or fighter jets. We're talking about an armored car. IMPD already has them and has for years. We just spend more money because they are purpose built LE vehicles and not milsurp. Let's not confuse the issue of what's under discussion with sidebars about what isn't. Brinks trucks are armored cars. Celebrities and politicians have armored cars. As I've posted in the past, for about $25k you can have one yourself that will stop any likely small arms fire.

But here we are in the heartland of the USA and where have heavy vehicles been needed in the past?

Indianapolis. Our bearcat has taken fire, has been used to shelter evacuees, etc.

Also see links above.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Voluntarily, of course. Was that a trick question?

Governments raise money by taxes, barring some fantastic ratio of natural resources to population or controlling the economy and competing or eliminating private enterprise. I will assume that given your remaining in this nation and participating in its representative government, you are volunteering to enjoy both the rights and the responsibilities inherent in such even if you don't always get your way.

 

[Vigilant]

When someone says: "We seriously need this", prior uses come to mind. Afghanistan? Sure. IED's and EFP's. Iraq too. Unfortunately, our men and women did what was requested of them without sufficient protection and while someone above blamed the beancounters, I blame one too many generals and too few armored vehicles.

But, that is sort of beside the point. Now we have too many MRAPs...and still the same number of generals, go figure.

But here we are in the heartland of the USA and where have heavy vehicles been needed in the past?

That's not an MRAP, just sayin!

 

[CathyInBlue]

I have no problem with the police having these toys, provided: A) they pay for them out of their existing motor pool budget, no additional tax allocations, and B) they are made available to the public at large as well, via government surplus auctions.

Neither of these two reasonable conditions are met by the federal provision of MRAPs to civil police.

 

[ATM]

Governments raise money by taxes, barring some fantastic ratio of natural resources to population or controlling the economy and competing or eliminating private enterprise.

Yes, they take, plunder, squander, control, and eliminate private competition - all of that and more.

I will assume that given your remaining in this nation and participating in its representative government, you are volunteering to enjoy both the rights and the responsibilities inherent in such even if you don't always get your way.

A common error, check your premises.

 

[Alpo]

That's not an MRAP, just sayin!

No, but I thought the tanks employed would be too prejudicial.

"I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail" - Abraham Maslow

And there are now 2 of these mortar carriers in NYC.

Can you tell me what problem cannot be solved by law enforcement that they need to have MORTARS?!!!!

 

[Denny347]

And there are now 2 of these mortar carriers in NYC.

Can you tell me what problem cannot be solved by law enforcement that they need to have MORTARS?!!!!

They don't have mortars.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

But here we are in the heartland of the USA and where have heavy vehicles been needed in the past?

None. Tippecanoe Sheriff has lost two deputies who were shot with their own weapons inside their car . . . in 1928 . . . which the Sheriff does not even memorialize.

It's not about need, it's about eating at the cool kids table at ISA. "Hey, 79 has a tank now. Aren't they cool."

This thing is a silly white elephant. I'm going for coffee and tell my county councilman my concerns.

 

[Deus salvator meus]

It seems the kinds folks of Pulaski County have given the good Sheriff of Tippecanoe County an MRAP. What Tippecanoe County needs with an armored RV, I have no idea.

It is best we keep a close eye on it. I better not see it in the Christmas Parade.

The ballistic protection that this vehicle offers is an enormous asset to the police of Tippecanoe County. All of the MRAPS that are issued through the DOD are depleted of any weaponry, computers, or night vision. They are simply armored vehicles. The engine that powers the unit, depending on which version is either a 330 hp International motor, or a CAT C7. Both of these motors, as well as the transmission is a common powertrain for school busses, so the maintenance would be similar.

Another point that I think is a point of concern is the word "Free" being thrown around. It should not be considered "free" because it is most definitely not "free" it cost this nation's tax payers nearly $500,000, when it was built. The sad thing is, that the vehicles are sitting idle for years on end, and not being utilized when they could be. If a local County law enforcement agency can benefit from using this truck, then I think that they should. It sounds like it was sitting in a field in Pulaski County, rotting.

 

[T.Lex]

We're talking about an armored car.

But it isn't really just an armored car. It is a vehicle purpose-built to withstand mine blasts. (It's in the name.)

Saying it is an armored car is like saying it is an off-road vehicle.

CIB's point is well made, though, counter to KF's. If there is no increase to the maintenance budget, then whatevs. It is a bit ridiculous to think that this is the best vehicle for what they may need (see other, cheaper, armored car options), but if it doesn't require any extra from the public fisc, then no harm no foul.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Both of these motors, as well as the transmission is a common powertrain for school busses, so the maintenance would be similar.

So, the county garage can do the service?

What is the cost?

What about the cost of licensing and training?

What is the increased insurance costs because of risk of collison (e.g. Banning) or roll over?

The ballistic protection that this vehicle offers is an enormous asset to the police of Tippecanoe County

How so? This is not Napghanistan or Chiraq.

Again, 1928, they were shot with their own weapons INSIDE their own vehicle. The Sheriff's Department is in such grief that they do not memorialize their deaths.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Evidence of the pressing need for an MRAP in Tippecanoe County. Just look at it--people working, packages being delivered, later the streets will swarm with office workers on their way to lunch. And on the weekend the deadly streets will overflow with middle class couples on their way to brunch or Purdue undergrads looking to get laid. Horrific. Why don't we have 2 MRAPs?