This scares the hell out of me (LEO attitudes toward CCW)

[ThrottleJockey]

His safety is more important than yours. Oh no, here it comes. How many times have regular law abiding citizens on a traffic stops had to shoot it out with a cop to protect themselves, hmm. Doesn't seem you are in to much danger of having to use your firearm against him. You guys won't like what I have to say about this. I think you need to quit whining and get over it!! If an officer pulls me over and I tell him I have a CCW and he disarms me until the traffic stop is over for "safety" reasons. WHO GIVES A FLYING FLIP!! I will get it back, everything will be alright, life will go on, I'll get a starbucks on the way home. But, But, But the cop should have trusted me...Why...I don't trust you...I don't trust anyone, it's him that is in the worse situation pulling over a car having no idea what he might be getting into, I'll be the bigger man for a few minutes and let him feel safer while he checks things out. Oh no my freedom to carry, for him not to search me whatever whatever whatever, cry me a river. You will be alright. When cops start pulling people over and after finding out they are a CCW holder, and have a clean record, and then turn around and shoot them for no reason, Ok then we might have to start worrying. I think you will be alright except for maybe some finger prints on your weapon. Told you you wouldn't like my take on it.

It's not that I don't like your take on this, it's more a point of acceptable risk. If the LEO in question is so afraid for his life over a burnt out tail light, cracked windshield, etc... then he either needs to find a different job or not pull people over for such ridiculous reasons. The point here, believe it or not is an economic one. Police are generally not concerned with safety, public or otherwise, but rather with generating revenue and statistics to create larger budgets. Whether they realize it or not, that is their primary purpose. If it was about safety, they would all drive neon orange cars with flashing lights on all the time. The job of an LEO is NOT to serve and protect citizens, but rather to protect the corporation (city, state, federal) and arrest code violators. This is done through the collection of fines (generating revenue to ensure the viability of the corp.) or through filling jails (generating revenue through funding from tax dollars). Unfortunately, most LEOs have NO clue how things actually work or what purpose they actually serve, but rather go about doing a job, following orders, being a "hero", etc...as a source of income. Nothing more than a way to get a paycheck and feel like they've contributed to society in some way. It is just human nature for some to not question what they don't understand, a personality trait if you will. Just as it is a natural personality trait for others to absolutely question everything and not participate in things they don't understand. I hope this clears things up for you a bit, and if there's any doubt about the truth in my words, by all means point it out and prove it.

 

[PatriotPride]

Send the troll some neg rep and ignore him. Bumping a thread that's nearly 2 years old? Wow.

 

[sepe]

Send the troll some neg rep and ignore him. Bumping a thread that's nearly 2 years old? Wow.

Lol, how long before Barney Fife is sent packing? He is like a poorly done bad cop cliché.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Wow, I didn't even notice how old this was. I started reading and got to that post by glock lover and could go no further without saying my piece. I will not comment on the troll, nor will I neg rep him. It seems to be his goal to get the first RED BADGE and I won't help him with that unless it means he gets banned.

 

[Hoosierdood]

Send the troll some neg rep and ignore him. Bumping a thread that's nearly 2 years old? Wow.

I badged him.

 

[tenring]

Only got through 2 pages of the LEO forum, the location of the 3 biggest whiners gave an indication of the demographics in their area of employment. If no one else noticed that, get the burr out from under your saddle.

 

[4sarge]

Troll'd Him

 

[turnandshoot4]

ill say it before and ive said it again, i have a job to do and i plan to do it safely. If you cant be away from your gun for 10 whole minutes then it will just be tough cookies for you. officer safety is not something i budge on and fiesty citizens wanting to hold guns while im tryng to write tickets does not sit well with me. Sorry but your gun comes with me. If all this makes you so uncomfortable then you should of not been breaking the law in the 1st place. you have to see it from where we are standing too.

Dang. I'll have to spread my neg rep around before I can get you again!

Troll.

 

[Denny347]

It's not that I don't like your take on this, it's more a point of acceptable risk. If the LEO in question is so afraid for his life over a burnt out tail light, cracked windshield, etc... then he either needs to find a different job or not pull people over for such ridiculous reasons. The point here, believe it or not is an economic one. Police are generally not concerned with safety, public or otherwise, but rather with generating revenue and statistics to create larger budgets. Whether they realize it or not, that is their primary purpose. If it was about safety, they would all drive neon orange cars with flashing lights on all the time. The job of an LEO is NOT to serve and protect citizens, but rather to protect the corporation (city, state, federal) and arrest code violators. This is done through the collection of fines (generating revenue to ensure the viability of the corp.) or through filling jails (generating revenue through funding from tax dollars). Unfortunately, most LEOs have NO clue how things actually work or what purpose they actually serve, but rather go about doing a job, following orders, being a "hero", etc...as a source of income. Nothing more than a way to get a paycheck and feel like they've contributed to society in some way. It is just human nature for some to not question what they don't understand, a personality trait if you will. Just as it is a natural personality trait for others to absolutely question everything and not participate in things they don't understand. I hope this clears things up for you a bit, and if there's any doubt about the truth in my words, by all means point it out and prove it.

Your post if full of FAIL. Once again you make a lot of assumptions about what cops know, think, and do. You honestly think a beat car give a crap about generating money or "protecting the corporation"? The thought is quite humorous though. How much money does the department get from one ticket? You seem to know all about us, tell us how much we get from writing a ticket. How much money do we generate? Where does the vast amounts of money go?

 

[hip shot]

That attitude is pretty frightening. If I was asked to surrender my weapon during the traffic stop, I believe I would peacefully.

If I was treated like a criminal, I would allow that as well. Followed by writing everybody in charge surrounding that department. Wanting to be/feel safe is something I can understand the officers wanting to do. Treating a law abiding citizen like a criminal without warrant, I'd not take lightly.

I would not take it lightly either, i would lawyer up ......

 

[furbymac]

ill say it before and ive said it again, i have a job to do and i plan to do it safely. If you cant be away from your gun for 10 whole minutes then it will just be tough cookies for you. officer safety is not something i budge on and fiesty citizens wanting to hold guns while im tryng to write tickets does not sit well with me. Sorry but your gun comes with me. If all this makes you so uncomfortable then you should of not been breaking the law in the 1st place. you have to see it from where we are standing too.

i have seen alot of officers who i don' trust carrying a firearm, would you please unload your firearm next time you are around me as i don't trust your training and would hate to be shot? thank you, and sorry for the inconvenience

 

[machete]

I have to say first that I am a law abiding citizen, with the possible exception of the occasional speeding ticket in my youth. Other than that I'm 47, successful enough to be retired at my tender age, respected in my community, involved in charity fund raising, civic matters, etc. So I am, by most standards, a pretty decent guy. I think I am pretty run of the mill in my views of politics, and I respect the police, know several officers personally.

But I stumbled upon this thread and if this is the attitude of the typical police officer then we are in trouble. Now I remind you I am friends with several LEO, but they have not had the opportunity to see me in a traffic stop situation so maybe this is how they REALLY FEEL about my CCW?

Disarming CCW carriers. - Police Forums & Law Enforcement Forums @ Officer.com

Oh, and pay attention to Post #22, but don't skip down to that one!!! This thread is a couple hundred posts long. It should be REQUIRED READING for members of this forum.

you can open up just about any thread in officer.com and find something pretty scary... go to coptalk in glockforum and see some of the same scary stuff

like i said just now in an illegal police thread in politics,,, i dont know how gun owners and cops got together in the first place...

theres a big us vs them thing going on from their side except that its ---us--- who pays them---they seem to think theyre entitled to keep getting paid and obeyed...

im going to throw a party the day public pensions collapse...

your right by the way---we are in trouble...

 

[machete]

Wanting to be/feel safe is something I can understand the officers wanting to do.

my wanting to be free is FAR more important than a cop wanting to be safe...

how healthy our freedom is as a people is measured by each persons own attitude on that statement

 

[machete]

It's not that I don't like your take on this, it's more a point of acceptable risk. If the LEO in question is so afraid for his life over a burnt out tail light, cracked windshield, etc... then he either needs to find a different job or not pull people over for such ridiculous reasons. The point here, believe it or not is an economic one. Police are generally not concerned with safety, public or otherwise, but rather with generating revenue and statistics to create larger budgets. Whether they realize it or not, that is their primary purpose. If it was about safety, they would all drive neon orange cars with flashing lights on all the time. The job of an LEO is NOT to serve and protect citizens, but rather to protect the corporation (city, state, federal) and arrest code violators. This is done through the collection of fines (generating revenue to ensure the viability of the corp.) or through filling jails (generating revenue through funding from tax dollars). Unfortunately, most LEOs have NO clue how things actually work or what purpose they actually serve, but rather go about doing a job, following orders, being a "hero", etc...as a source of income. Nothing more than a way to get a paycheck and feel like they've contributed to society in some way. It is just human nature for some to not question what they don't understand, a personality trait if you will. Just as it is a natural personality trait for others to absolutely question everything and not participate in things they don't understand. I hope this clears things up for you a bit, and if there's any doubt about the truth in my words, by all means point it out and prove it.

^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

so true... if cops gave a darn about safety,,,theyd look for speeders in plain view with flashing lights on while driving international orange cars...

it aint about safety,,,its about the hunt

You honestly think a beat car give a crap about generating money or "protecting the corporation"?

yes

 

[REK466]

As a new member of INGO, and a police officer for 18 years.... I feel for everyones side. I do not take guns from law abiding citizens but just ask they put them out of reach or secure them till I am done. I do not know who they are and yeah they do not know me either... It is my job.... I do figure if a person tells me that he or she has a weapon and a valid permit that they are most likely decent...and thank them for telling me... : ) I would rather see armed citizens than armed thugs anytime.....

 

[melensdad]

As a new member of INGO, and a police officer for 18 years.... I feel for everyones side. I do not take guns from law abiding citizens but just ask they put them out of reach or secure them till I am done. I do not know who they are and yeah they do not know me either... It is my job.... I do figure if a person tells me that he or she has a weapon and a valid permit that they are most likely decent...and thank them for telling me... : ) I would rather see armed citizens than armed thugs anytime.....

Hi, welcome to the INGO forums. I started this thread when I was 3 years younger than I am today and I still feel the same way that I did back then but I do thank you very much for your honest statement above. Clearly when you pull me over you don't know me. You have no clue about my character, and from my police officer friends I suspect you have been trained to presume that I am a liar until proven innocent.

I don't want you to feel unsafe and I don't want you to, in fact, be unsafe.

But the thread to which I linked in the first post of this thread clearly shows that many officers are very much anti-civilian carry, and perhaps even anti-civilian rights for other things too.

The officers with whom I am personal friends (have them over for picnics, meet for beer at Hooters, etc) are nice, decent, folks. I presume they are the very much like the MAJORITY of the officers. And based on your post I presume you are of that nice, decent MAJORITY. This thread is really aimed at the small minority who look at their job as something that puts them above the law and allows them to treat law abiding citizens as criminals.

 

[REK466]

And I do consider myself a nice policeman, heck I don't write many tickets, no free toaster for me... Why pester people for the same things I do on occasion.... I speed, forget my turn signal, and even roll a stop sign on occasion. I know a few officers make many of us look bad but there are a few of us out there that go after real criminals like robbers, auto thiefs and drug dealers.... You never know when the normal citizen may have to help get my butt out of a jamb.... And thanks....

 

[AJMD429]

Some other considerations are that if there weren't so many illegitimate laws on the books the LEO's have to enforce, they'd face citizens who respected the law, and those who enforce it, a bit more. They'd also be less likely to stumble upon someone who is willing to kill because they are so afraid of going to jail for what in a more Libertarian society (like our Constitutional Republic was originally set up to be) would not even be a 'crime'.

Most cops, like most people in general, are honest, compassionate, reasonably considerate, and believe in 'doing the right thing'. Unfortunately as we move towards a socialist police-state, the 'old rules' of basic human rights, property ownership, and so on, become replaced by arbitrary new rules based on protecting the State, are enforced with emphasis on semantics and technicalities rather than principle, and lead to the loss of civility and safety we're seeing now.

 

[serpicostraight]

Some other considerations are that if there weren't so many illegitimate laws on the books the LEO's have to enforce, they'd face citizens who respected the law, and those who enforce it, a bit more. They'd also be less likely to stumble upon someone who is willing to kill because they are so afraid of going to jail for what in a more Libertarian society (like our Constitutional Republic was originally set up to be) would not even be a 'crime'.

Most cops, like most people in general, are honest, compassionate, reasonably considerate, and believe in 'doing the right thing'. Unfortunately as we move towards a socialist police-state, the 'old rules' of basic human rights, property ownership, and so on, become replaced by arbitrary new rules based on protecting the State, are enforced with emphasis on semantics and technicalities rather than principle, and lead to the loss of civility and safety we're seeing now.

you hit the nail on the head. if we went back to the way things used to be everything would calm down. i remember when the only ones that had to watch for the police was criminals. anymore you can make a wrong turn and end up in jail or worse.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThrottleJockey
It's not that I don't like your take on this, it's more a point of acceptable risk. If the LEO in question is so afraid for his life over a burnt out tail light, cracked windshield, etc... then he either needs to find a different job or not pull people over for such ridiculous reasons. The point here, believe it or not is an economic one. Police are generally not concerned with safety, public or otherwise, but rather with generating revenue and statistics to create larger budgets. Whether they realize it or not, that is their primary purpose. If it was about safety, they would all drive neon orange cars with flashing lights on all the time. The job of an LEO is NOT to serve and protect citizens, but rather to protect the corporation (city, state, federal) and arrest code violators. This is done through the collection of fines (generating revenue to ensure the viability of the corp.) or through filling jails (generating revenue through funding from tax dollars). Unfortunately, most LEOs have NO clue how things actually work or what purpose they actually serve, but rather go about doing a job, following orders, being a "hero", etc...as a source of income. Nothing more than a way to get a paycheck and feel like they've contributed to society in some way. It is just human nature for some to not question what they don't understand, a personality trait if you will. Just as it is a natural personality trait for others to absolutely question everything and not participate in things they don't understand. I hope this clears things up for you a bit, and if there's any doubt about the truth in my words, by all means point it out and prove it.

Your post if full of FAIL. Once again you make a lot of assumptions about what cops know, think, and do. You honestly think a beat car give a crap about generating money or "protecting the corporation"? The thought is quite humorous though. How much money does the department get from one ticket? You seem to know all about us, tell us how much we get from writing a ticket. How much money do we generate? Where does the vast amounts of money go? __________________

No, and if you actually READ my post I even state that the ACTUAL officer doesn't even know what he is doing and " Unfortunately, most LEOs have NO clue how things actually work or what purpose they actually serve, but rather go about doing a job, following orders, being a "hero", etc...as a source of income. Nothing more than a way to get a paycheck and feel like they've contributed to society in some way. It is just human nature for some to not question what they don't understand, a personality trait if you will. Just as it is a natural personality trait for others to absolutely question everything and not participate in things they don't understand"