The video of Sam Dubose's death is so bad, Cincinnati is prepping for riots.

[Kutnupe14]

I remember posting something regarding memory of an event not so long ago.

To recap, when my finger was shot I remember running to lay my hand down in the grass to hold it still, make it feel better, and observe it. I didn't have time to take the gun from my goddaugther and my buddy Jack did so. HE remembers me taking the gun.

While I do remember telling him the first aid kit was in the trunk I recall him asking for it. I NEVER told him to get it. On the other hand he remembers me ordering him to get it.

We were three (3) feet apart. We were facing the same direction. We had the same view. We have no reason to lie. It was my stupidity that got me shot. And yet, we both remember small details in a very different manner.

Officer Tensley could have FELT being dragged, even though he wasn't. This could easily result in a frame of mind that he honestly believes he was being dragged. If this is true then he is not lying. I don't like focusing on what he said and then judging his entire character from it based on its accuracy.

I also remember watching the bodycam shooting of a young man who ran from police at a church(posted here on INGO). The guy pulled his gun while running and the police officer shot him. He died in a ditch at the side of the road. At the end of the bodycam video the officer is explaining to his superior what happened. I remember that he also got some details wrong. He wasn't lying, but it was easy for me to dispassionately sit behind my computer and watch the events unfold and easily see where his statement conflicted in parts with the video. Overall, he got the broad brushes down. Again, it was the heat of the moment and he wasn't trying to cover anything up or lie. He was just misremembering some details in his telling of the event.

I have learned that memory is fallible. If Officer Tensley honestly believed his life was in danger that would possibly create justification for using lethal force in self defense. I don't know. I do believe training and experience could well play a factor in all of this.

Regards,

Doug

You bring up a good point. The stress could very well been a factor in his memory, and defaulted to "fill in the blanks" mode. It's not uncommon.

 

[Lebowski]

Have we heard any opinions from our resident leos here??

A few have I believe. General consensus is that he should not have reached into the car and it would have been better (from a law point of view) to let him escape and charge him with that and whatever else they could after or if they caught back up with him.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Have we heard any opinions from our resident leos here??

I think it looks really, really bad, but not murder. I'm wondering why UC police are allowed that patrol off campus. I'm unfamiliar with their policy, but if their day to day operations involves more with working with students than the normal city populace, one can't help but wonder if these guys should be placed in those types of situations.

 

[Alpo]

How far away from campus did this event occur?

and....more news.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...officers-kelly-brinson?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

[SEIndSAM]

I think it looks really, really bad, but not murder. I'm wondering why UC police are allowed that patrol off campus. I'm unfamiliar with their policy, but if their day to day operations involves more with working with students than the normal city populace, one can't help but wonder if these guys should be placed in those types of situations.

The area around UC is an area that has been getting a lot of attention from LEO. Lots of crime, robbery & burglary on students. Several armed robberies in the past couple of years.
I wouldn't let my daughter (senior in HS) even look at UC for this reason.

 

[Peter Potamus]

The shooting took place at the red arrow. Looks like maybe 2-3 blocks from campus?

 

[Alpo]

Thanks. Fairly close.

 

[Ericpwp]

I saw this on the TV in Taco Bell a few days ago. Everyone on CNN had their torches and pitchforks out.

Looks like they need body cameras with accelerometers now.

 

[jd4320t]

I saw this on the TV in Taco Bell a few days ago. Everyone on CNN had their torches and pitchforks out.

Looks like they need body cameras with accelerometers now.

LOL.

Last summer people said how they wish they could see body camera footage of things that happened. Now when we start to see it more and more it still isn't enough.

Samuel Dubose is dead because of Samuel Dubose.

 

[j706]

Lets see here Ferguson Mo., Sandra Bland (whatever her name is) countless others and now this. And people wonder why it is usually only new guys that are out running up and down the roads stopping everything that moves. They can have my share. If they need me send me a run. Other wise......

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Ok, you've piqued my curiosity. He was comparing it to a civilian situation, so what potential scenario would allow me to try to pull someone out of their own vehicle and then shoot them in 'self defense' when they try to drive away from me?

Actually I didn't compare it to a non leo situation. I simply pointed out that when faced with death/sbi that anyone has a right to use lawful force. I generally speaking don't have a lawful reason to reach into someones car that doesn't want me too, so therefor my use of force would most likely not be lawful. Not necessarily the same with an officer. I'm pretty sure that officer had a lawful right to reach into the car to prevent the driver from fleeing(may not have been smart but I believe lawful). Since he was acting lawfully if the driver put him at risk of death/sbi (which I'm pretty sure being dragged by a car does)by acting unlawfully (refusing lawful commands, attempting to flee) he doesn't have the right to use lawful force? He has a duty to retreat? Should that be applied to everyone or just officers?

 

[BogWalker]

So has any of the predicted rioting materialized?

 

[Kutnupe14]

So has any of the predicted rioting materialized?

Well, I'm waiting for the weekend to get over. I hope not, but we shall see.

 

[j706]

So has any of the predicted rioting materialized?

You can bet your life on it. All that is needed is an excuse. And even that is not always necessary.

 

[j706]

Actually I didn't compare it to a non leo situation. I simply pointed out that when faced with death/sbi that anyone has a right to use lawful force. I generally speaking don't have a lawful reason to reach into someones car that doesn't want me too, so therefor my use of force would most likely not be lawful. Not necessarily the same with an officer. I'm pretty sure that officer had a lawful right to reach into the car to prevent the driver from fleeing(may not have been smart but I believe lawful). Since he was acting lawfully if the driver put him at risk of death/sbi (which I'm pretty sure being dragged by a car does)by acting unlawfully (refusing lawful commands, attempting to flee) he doesn't have the right to use lawful force? He has a duty to retreat? Should that be applied to everyone or just officers?

According to the stupid prosecutor he should not have even stopped the guy. All of those annoying little laws don't mean a thing to some people.

 

[tcecil88]

You can bet your life on it. All that is needed is an excuse. And even that is not always necessary.

^^This.
Cincinnati has always seemed right on the ragged edge of a meltdown. I have been here 2 1/2 years and it always seems that way. There is a lot of anger here.

 

[AA&E]

That's pretty much my take at this point: yes, DuBose attempted to flee, and yes, in so doing, the officer was dragged. But shooting the driver in response is still not reasonable. Especially because:



I think it is easily arguable that if the officer was able to unholster his weapon and line it up to shoot, he had enough freedom of motion simply to extricate himself from the moving vehicle. Using deadly force was not reasonably required to deal with any physical threat he faced.

But do you not see the possibility the weapon was drawn due to the suspects reaching around the car and assuming a combative stance by pulling the door shut and then reaching around the cabin of the car. I believe that justifies a drawn weapon. I would expect one to be drawn on me under similar circumstances. Now lets say the weapon is in hand.. the car starts to move and the officer grabs on to the vehicle. the action of reaching and grabbing for something, I believe, makes it very likely the trigger finger would induce an unintentional discharge. In light of that a) murder is bull****... and b) the drawing and discharge of the weapon were both caused directly by actions of the deceased. Look through my post history. I am QUICK to throw an officer under the bus in these incidents. Here? Man I don't see it.

 

[AA&E]

Btw, the deceased had a large amount of cash, and marijuana,in his vehicle, I've read.

Irrelevant! His status as a felon fleeing the scene is not the issue here!

purple implied.

 

[AA&E]

I'm down visiting my parents right now in Bright (Indiana/Ohio/Cincinnati border) and WLWT channel 5 keeps playing Tensing's body cam in slow-mo and at the time the shot was fired, both of Sam DuBose's hands were up in the air. Tensing's left hand was clenching DuBose's shirt while his right hand was holding his pistol. In slow-mo, you never see Tensing's hand get caught in the steering wheel. Also, it's not until after the shot is fired that the car goes speeding off. I'm guessing it was an involuntary muscle spasm by the then deceased Sam DuBose that caused his car to flee the scene.

I disagree with your assessment. I've watched the video myself several times. The car is in gear and the engine revs sending the car forward before the shot rang out.

 

[olhorseman]

^^This.
Cincinnati has always seemed right on the ragged edge of a meltdown. I have been here 2 1/2 years and it always seems that way. There is a lot of anger here.

Here being Cincinnati or INGO?