The video of Sam Dubose's death is so bad, Cincinnati is prepping for riots.

[foszoe]

The Chief of Police and Assistant Chief of Police are both black, therefore Tensing is guilty if they want to maintain the peace. They can't show support for a fellow officer who was chucked into an unfortunate situation by a career criminal.
The Prosecuting Attorney is a vote chaser with a history of unprofessional behavior. This is the Daily KOS story on the Prosecuting Attorney from back in 2012, take it for what it's worth. Is Dirty Joe Deters Buying Black Votes?
There will not be a fair trial in Cincinnati for Tensing, even though the video appears to support Tensing's claims, IMO. If I was the Defense Attorney, I would ask for a change of venue. The officer was guilty before proven innocent here. Reports are that UC Police have already fired him. No support from his own department either.

I admit to getting older, jaded, and cynical, but I haven't reached the level yet where I can make that assumption without further details.

 

[chipbennett]

I think the video makes it obvious he was dragged, but but why'd he even have his gun out before that? I think he just reacted badly to the situation. I also think it was possible he shot by accident. He had his gun out, and the car taking off may have caused him to pull the trigger. Still, reckless homicide. I don't think it was reasonable for him to fear for his life such that he felt he needed to use deadly force.

The dead guy may have been a bad dude. But thus far he didn't do anything that warrants a death sentence.

That's pretty much my take at this point: yes, DuBose attempted to flee, and yes, in so doing, the officer was dragged. But shooting the driver in response is still not reasonable. Especially because:

You could also say that if cop doesn't draw his weapon, the guy probably doesn't get shot.

I think it is easily arguable that if the officer was able to unholster his weapon and line it up to shoot, he had enough freedom of motion simply to extricate himself from the moving vehicle. Using deadly force was not reasonably required to deal with any physical threat he faced.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I think it is easily arguable that if the officer was able to unholster his weapon and line it up to shoot, he had enough freedom of motion simply to extricate himself from the moving vehicle. Using deadly force was not reasonably required to deal with any physical threat he faced.

Is being dragged by a car deadly force/risk of sbi? Does anyone faced with deadly force/risk of sbi have the right to use lawful force in return? Or are you advocating having a duty to retreat?

 

[steveh_131]

Is being dragged by a car deadly force/risk of sbi? Does anyone faced with deadly force/risk of sbi have the right to use lawful force in return? Or are you advocating having a duty to retreat?

No, if you reach into somebody's car and try to yank them out and they try to drive away, it does not give you the right to shoot them.

 

[HoughMade]

No, if you reach into somebody's car and try to yank them out and they try to drive away, it does not give you the right to shoot them...

Not necessarily.

 

[steveh_131]

Not necessarily.

Ok, you've piqued my curiosity. He was comparing it to a civilian situation, so what potential scenario would allow me to try to pull someone out of their own vehicle and then shoot them in 'self defense' when they try to drive away from me?

 

[Alpo]

All for a front license plate stop. A license plate not required in many states. I'll put my money on the DA.

 

[jamil]

All for a front license plate stop. A license plate not required in many states. I'll put my money on the DA.

You think murder? Or just that he'll get a murder conviction given the "mood" of the nation.

 

[Peter Potamus]

This incident is getting a lot of coverage on many social forums. On some others I frequent, with a lot of LEO's, a consensus has emerged that Tensing screwed himself the moment he reached into the vehicle. He placed himself in a vulnerable condition when the situation clearly didn't demand he do so to save himself or others. At the instant he began to move to reach inside the car, the perp was not a threat to him or to others. Proper procedure would have been to pursue him and call for backup. Tensing placed himself in a precarious position....one that was not necessary. He may yet still be able to legitimately claim that he shot in fear for his life (or great bodily harm) but the fact that the action in which he was engaged at the time was not necessary or proper will definitely go against him.

Murder charge? No, any murder charge requires a varying level of premeditation. The video will clearly show that there was no evidence of such. A conviction on a lesser charge? It's looking more and more likely.

 

[Alpo]

I'm not sure of the charge. It is an unjustifiable action that resulted in death. Let the charge reflect the crime. If we find out later that he's a member of the Aryan Nation or something similar, then let those chips fall as they may.

 

[Kutnupe14]

You think murder? Or just that he'll get a murder conviction given the "mood" of the nation.

Murder, doubtful. Voluntary manslaughter, probably. Imo, it doesn't appear the officer was dragged. I think that's a bunch of bunch. I think he was probably running alongside the vehicle. I saw, nothing to indicate the officer's left hand was caught in the vehicle, preventing him from easily pulling it out.
Where's the other officer's vid?

 

[Kutnupe14]

This incident is getting a lot of coverage on many social forums. On some others I frequent, with a lot of LEO's, a consensus has emerged that Tensing screwed himself the moment he reached into the vehicle. He placed himself in a vulnerable condition when the situation clearly didn't demand he do so to save himself or others. At the instant he began to move to reach inside the car, the perp was not a threat to him or to others. Proper procedure would have been to pursue him and call for backup. Tensing placed himself in a precarious position....one that was not necessary. He may yet still be able to legitimately claim that he shot in fear for his life (or great bodily harm) but the fact that the action in which he was engaged at the time was not necessary or proper will definitely go against him.

Murder charge? No, any murder charge requires a varying level of premeditation. The video will clearly show that there was no evidence of such. A conviction on a lesser charge? It's looking more and more likely.

Yeah, this too. I would've never put my hand in the vehicle.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Btw, the deceased had a large amount of cash, and marijuana,in his vehicle, I've read.

 

[HoughMade]

Ok, you've piqued my curiosity. He was comparing it to a civilian situation, so what potential scenario would allow me to try to pull someone out of their own vehicle and then shoot them in 'self defense' when they try to drive away from me?

You left out the dragging part. I was thinking more of the law enforcement scenario where an officer has a right to detain, but if I spent the time I could probably come up with a civilian scenario. However, I'm talking theoretically, if you have the right to use reasonable force to detain someone and they try to drive off and them doing so creates danger of death or a significant injury, you can use self defense.

I'm not saying that this describes the situation at hand.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Never the best at physics, but I decided to look at some other vids of officers being dragged. All of them, when disengaged from the dragging vehicle, fall forward, falling on their chest, or rolling several times. In this instance, the officer appears to fall backwards, onto his back. Am I seeing this wrong, or does perpetual motion not apply in Cincinnati?

 

[indiucky]

Btw, the deceased had a large amount of cash, and marijuana,in his vehicle, I've read.

Define large amount...Have they released the amount of cash and marryjewiwanna or is this one of those "He had an arsenal of weapons, explosives and thousands of rounds of ammo when arrested" and then we see the pic and there is a Marlin model 60 with two bricks of .22's, a brick of firecrackers and a Jennings and a hi point????

 

[Dosproduction]

I don't know now the video with the still frames that shows the pot hole and truck kinda makes me think the vehicle was moving at time of shot. But still was it ok for the cop to stick his arm in the car and put him self in jeopardy. And agree he most likely could have just pulled his arm out. It was not stuck he was grabbing his seat belt. And this is another thing why is it the news always blows up the storys where the guy who is unarmed and died just did something stupid. Beats up a guy. Rob a store. Drugs in car. ect... Why cant they make a story big about some kid who was really a nice guy and got screwed. There has to be plenty of those storys as well.

 

[JTScribe]

Murder, doubtful. Voluntary manslaughter, probably. Imo, it doesn't appear the officer was dragged. I think that's a bunch of bunch. I think he was probably running alongside the vehicle. I saw, nothing to indicate the officer's left hand was caught in the vehicle, preventing him from easily pulling it out.
Where's the other officer's vid?

Yeah, I think they overcharged as well. Do you think that's an attempt to motivate him to plea down to manslaughter?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Define large amount...Have they released the amount of cash and marryjewiwanna or is this one of those "He had an arsenal of weapons, explosives and thousands of rounds of ammo when arrested" and then we see the pic and there is a Marlin model 60 with two bricks of .22's, a brick of firecrackers and a Jennings and a hi point????

I think it was just shy of $3000, cash.

 

[Lebowski]

$2.600 and an unspecified amount of marijuana from what I read.