The Republican Primary Race Is Filling Up

[jamil]

Remind me again, isn't the general election open voting?

1) The general election isn't a process in which there are state-by-state elections happening throughout the course of several months in which some candidates drop out as other candidates win and all the consequential dynamics of that.

2) If democrats cross over to vote in GOP primaries, will they vote GOP in the general election? That remains to be seen, but I think I have as much reason to believe they won't as Trump's loyal supporters have that they will.

 

[Landon]

1) The general election isn't a process in which there are state-by-state elections happening throughout the course of several months in which some candidates drop out as other candidates win and all the consequential dynamics of that.

2) If democrats cross over to vote in GOP primaries, will they vote GOP in the general election? That remains to be seen, but I think I have as much reason to believe they won't as Trump's loyal supporters have that they will.

Sorry, I just don't buy the argument that democrats in large numbers were crossing over to vote for Trump just for the sole fact to make him the GOP nominee. I believe that some probably did, but my guess is that was a very small number and really didn't make a difference one way or another.

 

[chipbennett]

Sorry, I just don't buy the argument that democrats in large numbers were crossing over to vote for Trump just for the sole fact to make him the GOP nominee. I believe that some probably did, but my guess is that was a very small number and really didn't make a difference one way or another.

Indeed. Especially with the Democrat primary being very much contested. I don't buy that people carried out an Operation Chaos strategy to influence the GOP nominee in order to yield an easier opponent for the Democrat nominee, when the selection of that Democrat nominee was very much in question.

 

[IndyDave1776]

As I see it, the worries about Trump's viability are exaggerated.

Unfortunately, the GOP has largely become the party of paying lip service to conservative values while serving a relatively small aggregate of owners whose agendas differ sharply from ours. Indiana makes a wonder microcosm to examine as it has been made adequately clear that the GOP caters to the Chamber of Commerce which is largely a mouthpiece for Eli Lilly and Cummins Engine, and the rest of us can go take a flying leap so far as they are concerned.

Equally unfortunate is that the Democrats have become the party of the deranged fringe while still paying lip service to being the party of the people, which is clearly untrue given that they push the agendas of single-digit minorities against the well-being of 90-99% of the population with reckless abandon and sheer ruthlessness.

The net result is that we have a lot of people in this country feeling politically homeless.

Trump has offered to defend the 2A, put his utmost effort into illegal immigration, which helps people with top floor offices while harming those who work for a living, and focus on returning industry to the United States rather than fostering the continuing exportation of most everything actually productive in nature through the present combination of unreasonable burdens and incentives which are left unchecked or worse put in place to facilitate a combination of offshoring production while taking advantages over foreign competitors by virtue of being "American" companies. He may not be a constitutionalist as we would consider it, or even our idea of a conservative, but as far back as I remember, from the time he appeared on the national stage, he perceived his personal well-being to rest on the well-being of the United States as opposed to the globalists which take in the alternatives almost unanimously, including St. Ted who is apparently owned by Goldman-Sachs. The flip side of this is that he has much to offer the traditional Democrat voting in the general election who works for a living, is not part of the leftist fringe, has the values of middle America, and recognizes that Hillary has philosophically already sold them out and will do so in deed as soon as she gets the chance.

All things being equal, moderate/centrist candidates tend to fare poorly in politics; However, all things are not equal. We are witnessing a very unusual time in which the two non-centrist factions represent no more than 10% of the population reliably leaving the majority in the middle, rather than the usual situation in which the middle is made up of no more than 20%, and now, in my estimation, is more like 80%.

Let me emphasize that by centrist, I do not mean sellouts who compromise away the things that matter to their base as they serve invisible owners, leading in the same direction as the other party selling out its base in deference to the same basic aggregate of owners.

Trump is certainly not my dream candidate, he is not the second coming of Thomas Jefferson or George Washington, and has plenty of imperfections. That said, I anticipate that so far as his declared positions are concerned, he will bring us a net improvement over the present, even if in some ways it is a modest improvement. If he sticks to his position on illegal immigration, it will help the economy so far as citizens who work for a living are concerned significantly. Same thing for trade agreements which call for us to drop our pants and grab our ankles. Same thing for foreign relations as opposed to Obama bowing and/or sucking things he shouldn't, or Hillary being on the take from the same people we need to approach from a position of strength. No, he is not the candidate I really would have wanted (Rand Paul seemed to be the only one who gets it, unlike the majority of the voting population), but right now I am not going to whine that I wanted a taller rescuer. Whether or not he is capable of 'Making America Great Again' as found in the brochure is open to debate. The fact that at this point he is the only one trying to do so is not open to debate, remembering that of the two alternatives, one is a commie and the other is owned, mostly by foreign nationals and governments, in addition to known criminal activity.

 

[jamil]

Dave, I don't disagree with the stuff you said are the problem. However, I just don't believe Trump is sincere. I strongly suspect that he's telling people what he thinks they want to hear, and he's found some stuff that sticks, and he's going with it. Him using the right buzzwords doesn't make me believe him. The way I read him, I think he's pretty much the same person he was 10 years ago, someone who could be equally comfortable presenting himself as left or right, depending on who he's closing the deal with.

I accept that it's possible that reasoning people can disagree on all that. I kinda believe that Trump will be more 2A friendly than Hillary which is the only reason I'm considering voting for him in November. The rest of it? Will he do any of it? I strongly suspect no walls will be built any faster, taller, or more "magnificent" than is currently being built now. Make America great again? From the beginning of Trump's candidacy I've seen that as just an empty slogan that he uses as part of the con.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Dave, I don't disagree with the stuff you said are the problem. However, I just don't believe Trump is sincere. I strongly suspect that he's telling people what he thinks they want to hear, and he's found some stuff that sticks, and he's going with it. Him using the right buzzwords doesn't make me believe him. The way I read him, I think he's pretty much the same person he was 10 years ago, someone who could be equally comfortable presenting himself as left or right, depending on who he's closing the deal with.

I accept that it's possible that reasoning people can disagree on all that. I kinda believe that Trump will be more 2A friendly than Hillary which is the only reason I'm considering voting for him in November. The rest of it? Will he do any of it? I strongly suspect no walls will be built any faster, taller, or more "magnificent" than is currently being built now. Make America great again? From the beginning of Trump's candidacy I've seen that as just an empty slogan that he uses as part of the con.

I can understand that the 'greatness of America' may sound like an empty slogan, but then again, I remember him on that theme 30 years ago, so at least he has been consistent with it.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Trump is hosting a rally to pay off Chris Christie's campaign debt.

 

[T.Lex]

Votes are simple mathematics. You can sit at home or throw them away and deny yourself a voice, or you can add onto an actual effort to stop a far worse fate. Turning a vote into something that deeply philosophical is pretentious.

Can you explain - perhaps using math - how a Republican voter in Indiana "give" his or her vote to HRC by not voting for Trump?

In other words, what rational leads to the conclusion that HRC has any chance of a victory in Indiana?

 

[Expat]

Can you explain - perhaps using math - how a Republican voter in Indiana "give" his or her vote to HRC by not voting for Trump?

In other words, what rational leads to the conclusion that HRC has any chance of a victory in Indiana?

The closest I could get is a reminder that Barry won the state the first time around.

 

[Dead Duck]

If Trump is a con or not, I don't care.
It's irrelevant. He has gotten the silent majority to start talking again and that's huge.
This wall he's been talking about, even if he drops the ball, the people will continue to build it. The cat is out of the bag now. The people want what the people want. I believe all the PC crap will start to fade out as well.....Finally...

My only goal is my gun freedoms and anything else will be a bonus.

Trump was not my first choice or my second. I never thought he would get this far but he has. I held off in the primary til I was confident that he was our best shot at beating Hillary.
If he is on the next ballot against Clinton, how can any TRUE gun owner NOT vote for him?



BTW- If you don't own guns, then what the **** are you doing on a gun forum debating my gun freedoms away?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Can you explain - perhaps using math - how a Republican voter in Indiana "give" his or her vote to HRC by not voting for Trump?

In other words, what rational leads to the conclusion that HRC has any chance of a victory in Indiana?

The closest I could get is a reminder that Barry won the state the first time around.

Isn't that apples and oranges though? I don't remember the numbers now, but in 2008, people of Indiana actually voted for Obama and in 2016, it's looking like some will not vote for Trump. Hoosiers gave Obama the election (so to speak -- in Indiana) by direct action whereas if Hillary should happen to win this year, it would be by direct action of Hoosiers voting for her as well.

 

[Expat]

Isn't that apples and oranges though? I don't remember the numbers now, but in 2008, people of Indiana actually voted for Obama and in 2016, it's looking like some will not vote for Trump. Hoosiers gave Obama the election (so to speak -- in Indiana) by direct action whereas if Hillary should happen to win this year, it would be by direct action of Hoosiers voting for her as well.

I agree partially. The number of people that voted for Obama went way up versus the number that voted for Kerry. But if the same number that voted for Bush in 2004 had voted for McCain in 2008, McCain would have won.

 

[T.Lex]

The closest I could get is a reminder that Barry won the state the first time around.

Isn't that apples and oranges though? I don't remember the numbers now, but in 2008, people of Indiana actually voted for Obama and in 2016, it's looking like some will not vote for Trump. Hoosiers gave Obama the election (so to speak -- in Indiana) by direct action whereas if Hillary should happen to win this year, it would be by direct action of Hoosiers voting for her as well.

Yeah, Obama won in 2008, but didn't in 2012. Hard to think that HRC is as popular as Obama was in 2008. I know of no polling that puts it anywhere close. Plus, the primary numbers suggest the Dems will not match a Trump-led GOP ticket. Even if every Republican who didn't vote for Trump stays home (which is unlikely), HRC would need all of her own primary voters and most of Sanders'.

 

[jamil]

Trump is hosting a rally to pay off Chris Christie's campaign debt.

I'll just say this. By parading Chris Christie around he is not helping to endear himself to me.

If Trump is a con or not, I don't care.
It's irrelevant. He has gotten the silent majority to start talking again and that's huge.
This wall he's been talking about, even if he drops the ball, the people will continue to build it. The cat is out of the bag now. The people want what the people want. I believe all the PC crap will start to fade out as well.....Finally...

My only goal is my gun freedoms and anything else will be a bonus.

Trump was not my first choice or my second. I never thought he would get this far but he has. I held off in the primary til I was confident that he was our best shot at beating Hillary.
If he is on the next ballot against Clinton, how can any TRUE gun owner NOT vote for him?



BTW- If you don't own guns, then what the **** are you doing on a gun forum debating my gun freedoms away?

So because Trump got the silent majority to talk again, THAT's an indicator that Trump won't make things even worse yet? How is that even logical?

I think you've drawn some conclusions not supported by reality. You conclude that Trump is better for gun rights than Hillary. I've made a similar guess. And it is a guess. I would concede that their guess is as good as mine or yours. Hell, we don't have any real idea what Trump will do in office. I won't pretend that I do anyway. Will he nominate his sister as he suggested? Or will he nominate a conservative as he said he'd do after getting flack about nominating his sister.

The people here who won't vote for Trump aren't not voting for him because they don't own guns, or because they don't care about the 2A. I'm fairly certain they are even more skeptical of Trump than I am.

 

[MisterChester]

Can you explain - perhaps using math - how a Republican voter in Indiana "give" his or her vote to HRC by not voting for Trump?

In other words, what rational leads to the conclusion that HRC has any chance of a victory in Indiana?

She won't.

2008 really was an anomaly for Indiana. I doubt either of them will seriously contest Indiana if polling stays the way it is.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Can you explain - perhaps using math - how a Republican voter in Indiana "give" his or her vote to HRC by not voting for Trump?

In other words, what rational leads to the conclusion that HRC has any chance of a victory in Indiana?

Let me start with an example from history. In the age of sail, when ships were items of individual workmanship rather than standardized products like a contemporary 'class', and sail canvas was sail canvas rather than having complex mechanism difficult for those other than the original builders or their clients to maintain, it was common for a ship captured in battle to be repaired and placed in service of the navy which captured it. Starting from this point, the balance of power was affected like so:

If the enemy sinks one of my ships, I am down one ship and he hasn't changed, leaving a net change of one ship in his favor.

If the enemy captures one of my ships, I am down one ship and he is up one ship for a net change of two ships in his favor.

Similarly:

If a consistent R voter crosses over and votes D, that is generally counted as only one vote, but it has double the impact of his not voting, so I am going to say that crossing over makes a shift of one vote in favor of the D, where not voting amounts to a net change of 1/2 vote in favor of the D, or against the R, depending on how you prefer to look at it.

 

[chipbennett]

Don't look now, but erstwhile Cruz and Jeb! financial backers are now supporting Hillary:

Wealthy Cruz Donor Pours Millions Into Clinton Campaign | Observer

 

[zippy23]

Can someone post a poll, title it "Who will you vote for?" and give 3 options....Trump, Clinton, Third party(allowing clinton to win).......i've never posted a poll and dont wanna screw it up. I'm very interested to see on INGO how many people would actually vote Clinton. If its over 3% i'd be shocked. But really i'm wondering if people will unify around Trump so that we dont lose guns from clinton and her scotus pick

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Can someone post a poll, title it "Who will you vote for?" and give 3 options....Trump, Clinton, Third party(allowing clinton to win).......i've never posted a poll and dont wanna screw it up. I'm very interested to see on INGO how many people would actually vote Clinton. If its over 3% i'd be shocked. But really i'm wondering if people will unify around Trump so that we dont lose guns from clinton and her scotus pick

So you concede that Trump is the loser among the two, since third party automatically means Clinton wins?

Well... why would so many people back a loser?

 

[Dead Duck]

So you concede that Trump is the loser among the two, since third party automatically means Clinton wins?

Well... why would so many people back a loser?

You're right!
The Libertarians have been supporting losers for years now.