The Republican Primary Race Is Filling Up

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    jamil

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    Why are republicans always scared of winning or pushing their ideals, fearing the outcomes it will create down the line?

    Democrats push their ideology and still win elections. Is there some sort of mass mental illness in the republican party or something? (I'm not referring directly to Trump winning, I'm referring to practically every move they've made since Bush has been out of office.)

    I think a lot of politicians, on both sides of the isle, go to Washington ready to change it, only to be consumed by it. At some point their ideals fade away and there is just a constant need to hang on to their power, navigating the good old boy's club's tenure system to gain more power. Trump would definitely interrupt that because he's playing a different game. But even if he didn't utterly **** the nation up worse, he's a blip. You guys think he'll burn this ***** down. I think you're naive.

    Are we calling Trump's ideology typical Republican ideology?

    Kut (wants clarification)

    I don't think his ideology has evolved into being more conservative from once being more progressive. I don't see much evidence that Trump driven by ideology at all. He seems more driven by the deal. He decides what he wants. Conjures up a deal to get it. And then he works real hard to close it. What ever he tells people is just to close the deal. If being progressive gets the deal closed, he's progressive. I think he saw his best strategy for closing this deal is to do it as a Republican. Figure out who is pissed, say what they're saying, get them on board, then go on to the next group. First up? Illegal immigration.

    I watched his Alabama speech during the Summer. I laughed out loud when he said his favorite book was the Bible. Yeah. Right. But that's what he does.

    For the Trumpers in INGO land, you can say "told ya" when Trump goes through the entire campaign until he wins or loses and doesn't pander to progressives. Oh wait. Too late. He's already courting them too. We'll see though how skillful he is not to lose the ground he's already won.
     

    CountryBoy1981

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    Why are republicans always scared of winning or pushing their ideals, fearing the outcomes it will create down the line?

    Democrats push their ideology and still win elections. Is there some sort of mass mental illness in the republican party or something? (I'm not referring directly to Trump winning, I'm referring to practically every move they've made since Bush has been out of office.)

    Trump is a Democrat. Pro-P.P., supports the individual mandate of ObamaCare, supported (probably still supports) amnesty, etc. If he wins the primary he will begin to sound a lot more like Hillary.
     

    T.Lex

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    T.Lex, I think they would be willing to knowingly lose this election if they thought it would enable them to retain their control of the apparatus and the nominee - especially if they had someone else to blame. Que the speechwriters to begin those 'Trump ruined everything' speeches

    Well, the ONLY chance they have to retain any control - even nominal- of the nominee is if it is Trump (barring Cruz/Rubio). They have absolute zero percent chance of influencing HRC.

    That's why GOPe (I like that acronym) support for an independent candidate really seems like a pipe dream. If anything, it might push certain issue-based donors more libertarian or something, but not to a new party.
     

    Tombs

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    Trump is a Democrat. Pro-P.P., supports the individual mandate of ObamaCare, supported (probably still supports) amnesty, etc. If he wins the primary he will begin to sound a lot more like Hillary.

    Have you heard WHY he supports PP? He clearly said he does not want to fund their abortions, but wants to continue funding for health services. I don't see the problem there, as long as you can reliably audit their spending.

    Considering all the policies I've read from him, I've not seen him support the individual mandate of obamacare yet.

    As far as amnesty goes, publically calling to export 11+ million people and taking the level of heat he has taken is pretty stupid to just go back on or have no intention of doing in the first place.
     

    T.Lex

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    Have you heard WHY he supports PP? He clearly said he does not want to fund their abortions, but wants to continue funding for health services. I don't see the problem there, as long as you can reliably audit their spending.

    Money is fungible. You need to buy beer and bacon. You only have enough money for 1 (truly, a dire situation). If I give you money for the bacon, it means you can also buy the beer.

    Considering all the policies I've read from him, I've not seen him support the individual mandate of obamacare yet.
    What did it mean when he said at the debate that they wouldn't just let someone die? It isn't actually a mandate, it is universal coverage. It is different. It is still expensive.

    As far as amnesty goes, publically calling to export 11+ million people and taking the level of heat he has taken is pretty stupid to just go back on or have no intention of doing in the first place.
    I'll set aside a couple of the more obvious things, but ask how in the world would that could even be accomplished?
     

    jamil

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    Have you heard WHY he supports PP? He clearly said he does not want to fund their abortions, but wants to continue funding for health services. I don't see the problem there, as long as you can reliably audit their spending.

    Considering all the policies I've read from him, I've not seen him support the individual mandate of obamacare yet.

    As far as amnesty goes, publically calling to export 11+ million people and taking the level of heat he has taken is pretty stupid to just go back on or have no intention of doing in the first place.

    On PP. That is status quo then. Planned Parenthood already not supposed to use federal funding for abortions. The federal funding is supposed to be for contraceptives and other services.

    I'll tell ya what. If President Trump exports 11+ million people, you get to give me your "told ya" speech. If all that talk turns into little or no action, I get to give you mine. Fair? I'll start working on mine as soon as Trump is elected. He's not gonna deport 11+ million people. I doubt he'll even build the grand wall or the magnificent gate. And damn sure won't get Mexico to pay for it.
     

    Alpo

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    I don't know what Trump is. An Opportunist? Maybe that's as close as we can get to a guy who is a mile wide and an inch deep. I'm not sure he's ever spoken the truth when he's meant to.
     
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    On PP. That is status quo then. Planned Parenthood already not supposed to use federal funding for abortions. The federal funding is supposed to be for contraceptives and other services.

    I'll tell ya what. If President Trump exports 11+ million people, you get to give me your "told ya" speech. If all that talk turns into little or no action, I get to give you mine. Fair? I'll start working on mine as soon as Trump is elected. He's not gonna deport 11+ million people. I doubt he'll even build the grand wall or the magnificent gate. And damn sure won't get Mexico to pay for it.


    my money's on jamil...
     

    bwframe

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    On PP. That is status quo then. Planned Parenthood already not supposed to use federal funding for abortions. The federal funding is supposed to be for contraceptives and other services.

    I'll tell ya what. If President Trump exports 11+ million people, you get to give me your "told ya" speech. If all that talk turns into little or no action, I get to give you mine. Fair? I'll start working on mine as soon as Trump is elected. He's not gonna deport 11+ million people. I doubt he'll even build the grand wall or the magnificent gate. And damn sure won't get Mexico to pay for it.

    my money's on jamil...

    Meh, his campaign will never live past insulting John McCain... ;)
     

    BugI02

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    ... I'll tell ya what. If President Trump exports 11+ million people, you get to give me your "told ya" speech. If all that talk turns into little or no action, I get to give you mine. Fair? I'll start working on mine as soon as Trump is elected. He's not gonna deport 11+ million people. I doubt he'll even build the grand wall or the magnificent gate. And damn sure won't get Mexico to pay for it.

    I will have to give you this, jamil. I have read the number 'half million per year' mentioned as a doable quantity but if you think about it thats almost 1400 per day, every day. None of those 50 government holidays a year off.

    I think to make progress you would need to enact some truly draconian penalties for employing illegals, perhaps $10000 per occurrence if a private citizen employs an undocumented gardener up to $10000000 per occurrence of a major corporation employing an undocumented worker and requiring applicants for all forms of public assistance to submit to eVerify and allocate the resources to scale that up. Fail eVerify and you're immediately handed over to ICE. We have to stop supplying a turnkey good life for simply transgressing the border and disappearing into the urban landscape
     

    Tombs

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    Money is fungible. You need to buy beer and bacon. You only have enough money for 1 (truly, a dire situation). If I give you money for the bacon, it means you can also buy the beer.


    What did it mean when he said at the debate that they wouldn't just let someone die? It isn't actually a mandate, it is universal coverage. It is different. It is still expensive.


    I'll set aside a couple of the more obvious things, but ask how in the world would that could even be accomplished?

    So when the government collects taxes, the taxes are never collected for specific purposes or spent in specific ways? Your analogy takes its self apart.

    We don't let people die currently either. If it's a life threatening emergency and you show up to the ER, they're legally obligated to treat you, last time I checked.

    As far as deporting tons of people, I don't know, ask ICE about it. It's not like we're not regularly deporting fairly large numbers of people. I'm not saying he'll do it in a couple days. I imagine his policy will make it far more probable that people would deport themselves so they have a chance of working or surviving here.
     
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    jamil

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    So when the government collects taxes, the taxes are never collected for specific purposes or spent in specific ways? Your analogy takes its self apart.

    We don't let people die currently either. If it's a life threatening emergency and you show up to the ER, they're legally obligated to treat you, last time I checked.

    As far as deporting tons of people, I don't know, ask ICE about it. It's not like we're not regularly deporting fairly large numbers of people. I'm not saying he'll do it in a couple days. I imagine his policy will make it far more probable that people would deport themselves so they have a chance of working or surviving here.

    You really are convinced Trump is THAT anti immigration. I almost think it'll feel too evil to goat at you when The Donald closes a deal that you didn't expect.

    As for PP funding, just because it shows up in a different ledger doesn't mean it doesn't impact another ledger. Donations marked for their general fund can go to abortions instead of condoms if tax money is paying for the condoms. It's just the fungible nature of money.
     

    Tombs

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    You really are convinced Trump is THAT anti immigration. I almost think it'll feel too evil to goat at you when The Donald closes a deal that you didn't expect.

    As for PP funding, just because it shows up in a different ledger doesn't mean it doesn't impact another ledger. Donations marked for their general fund can go to abortions instead of condoms if tax money is paying for the condoms. It's just the fungible nature of money.

    Excuse me for finding it a bit funny that you think his primary campaign goal is something he's actually opposed to.

    I can see him being flexible or possibly selling snake oil on a lot of things, but to think he's pro-illegal immigration... I think that may be stretching things quite a lot, especially amnesty.
     
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    Tombs

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    Trump released his official healthcare reform policy.

    Congress must act. Our elected representatives in the House and Senate must:

    1. Completely repeal Obamacare. Our elected representatives must eliminate the individual mandate. No person should be required to buy insurance unless he or she wants to.
    2. Modify existing law that inhibits the sale of health insurance across state lines. As long as the plan purchased complies with state requirements, any vendor ought to be able to offer insurance in any state. By allowing full competition in this market, insurance costs will go down and consumer satisfaction will go up.
    3. Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system. Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions? As we allow the free market to provide insurance coverage opportunities to companies and individuals, we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance. We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.
    4. Allow individuals to use Health Savings Accounts (HSAs). Contributions into HSAs should be tax-free and should be allowed to accumulate. These accounts would become part of the estate of the individual and could be passed on to heirs without fear of any death penalty. These plans should be particularly attractive to young people who are healthy and can afford high-deductible insurance plans. These funds can be used by any member of a family without penalty. The flexibility and security provided by HSAs will be of great benefit to all who participate.
    5. Require price transparency from all healthcare providers, especially doctors and healthcare organizations like clinics and hospitals. Individuals should be able to shop to find the best prices for procedures, exams or any other medical-related procedure.
    6. Block-grant Medicaid to the states. Nearly every state already offers benefits beyond what is required in the current Medicaid structure. The state governments know their people best and can manage the administration of Medicaid far better without federal overhead. States will have the incentives to seek out and eliminate fraud, waste and abuse to preserve our precious resources.
    7. Remove barriers to entry into free markets for drug providers that offer safe, reliable and cheaper products. Congress will need the courage to step away from the special interests and do what is right for America. Though the pharmaceutical industry is in the private sector, drug companies provide a public service. Allowing consumers access to imported, safe and dependable drugs from overseas will bring more options to consumers.

    https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/healthcare-reform
     

    Tombs

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    Trump favors repealing ObamaCare and free market solutions for health care? That puts him far ahead of the Republican House/Senate and certainly any of the Democrats.

    But I'm sure the shills will show up in no time to scream "HE'S LYING DON'T LISTEN, VOTE FOR MY GUY!!!"
     
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