The Real Costs of Electric Car Ownership - CNET

[smokingman]

One of my tricks was being able to make paints that worked on PVC and ABS interior trim along with a dye for the carpet. This allowed me to bring the custom exterior color inside like it was a factory color.

View attachment 362261

Total thread derail, but that wiper button gives me some funny memories. See until my daughter hit around 12 I had her convinced older cars where better because they could read your mind, and did what you wanted. It was around 12 when she caught the foot movement.
That is one amazing and beautiful ride.

 

[bwframe]

Is EV Charging Cheaper Than Gas? What We Found When We Did the Math

This debate can determine your next vehicle. We used math and called some experts to get the answer.

www.cnet.com

 

[bwframe]

I was going through Btown the day after the storms knocked out power to most of town. Only half of the stoplights were working and there were NO gas stations that I could find with power.

Thought it was interesting to get behind this student driver in a Tesla. Made me wonder if it would be worse to not find gas or not have the power to charge your EV?

 

[smokingman]

I was going through Btown the day after the storms knocked out power to most of town. Only half of the stoplights were working and there were NO gas stations that I could find with power.

Thought it was interesting to get behind this student driver in a Telsa. Made me wonder if it would be worse to not find gas or not have the power charge your EV?

View attachment 362479

A student driver learning in one of the most expensive cars to insure and replace. Sounds like a good business model.

 

[Ingomike]

A student driver learning in one of the most expensive cars to insure and replace. Sounds like a good business model.

I bet the trainers are probably like uber drivers using their own cars…

 

[BehindBlueI's]

A student driver learning in one of the most expensive cars to insure and replace. Sounds like a good business model.

Expiration date on the plate is fuzzy, but I don't think that's a business plate. I bought similar magnets and put on my truck when my son was learning to drive.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Thought it was interesting to get behind this student driver in a Tesla. Made me wonder if it would be worse to not find gas or not have the power to charge your EV?

I was in Atlanta many years ago when a major hurricane damaged refineries. It was after Katrina but I don't recall the exact year, probably 2010-ish. I had a diesel truck. There was no diesel to be had until I got north of Nashville. It was not a fun experience.

How much either one sucks would be based on how prepared you are, I suppose. It's easy and cheap to have cans of gasoline/diesel in the garage, but it's a pretty limited supply. A whole house generator would charge the car while running the house.

Personally, I think a PHEV would be the best of both worlds. You can use it as a generator for your house or charge it with a generator, as needed, and it retains all the advantages of gasoline as well. Ford hyped that use case up after Texas forgot Texas got cold and their wind and natural gas power generation froze up.

 

[bwframe]

Expiration date on the plate is fuzzy, but I don't think that's a business plate. I bought similar magnets and put on my truck when my son was learning to drive.

I wondered about that sign being a private individual training their own youth? Might not even been a "student" driving the car? Especially with every other intersection traffic light out?

 

[bwframe]

I was in Atlanta many years ago when a major hurricane damaged refineries. It was after Katrina but I don't recall the exact year, probably 2010-ish. I had a diesel truck. There was no diesel to be had until I got north of Nashville. It was not a fun experience.

How much either one sucks would be based on how prepared you are, I suppose. It's easy and cheap to have cans of gasoline/diesel in the garage, but it's a pretty limited supply. A whole house generator would charge the car while running the house.

Personally, I think a PHEV would be the best of both worlds. You can use it as a generator for your house or charge it with a generator, as needed, and it retains all the advantages of gasoline as well. Ford hyped that use case up after Texas forgot Texas got cold and their wind and natural gas power generation froze up.

There were cars out of gas in the streets Wednesday with folks fueling them with gas cans.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I wondered about that sign being a private individual training their own youth? Might not even been a "student" driving the car? Especially with every other intersection traffic light out?

That'd be my guess. Probably somebody teaching their kid and just didn't take the magnet off.

I don't know if it keeps the road ragers tamped down a little, but I put two on the tail gate and one on each door so if he was doing a dumb at an intersection, at least people had a reasonable chance of knowing it was inexperience and not a-holish behavior.

 

[actaeon277]

Is EV Charging Cheaper Than Gas? What We Found When We Did the Math

This debate can determine your next vehicle. We used math and called some experts to get the answer.

www.cnet.com

As usual, there are assumptions being made.

People filling up a car, do so when they need it.
They don't wait for "low rate" times.

Right now, EVs save on gas tax.
Does anyone think that would continue? There are already different solutions being suggested. From EVs paying a yearly fee, to keeping track of mileage.

As EVs start (or continue) to strain the electric distribution/generation system, does anyone think that the electric companies are not going to upgrade, and pass the costs on to the customers?
New stations, and a more robust distribution system will not be cheap.
Of course, the costs will be spread out over ALL users of the grid, not just EV users.

 

[Ingomike]

As usual, there are assumptions being made.

People filling up a car, do so when they need it.
They don't wait for "low rate" times.

Right now, EVs save on gas tax.
Does anyone think that would continue? There are already different solutions being suggested. From EVs paying a yearly fee, to keeping track of mileage.

As EVs start (or continue) to strain the electric distribution/generation system, does anyone think that the electric companies are not going to upgrade, and pass the costs on to the customers?
New stations, and a more robust distribution system will not be cheap.
Of course, the costs will be spread out over ALL users of the grid, not just EV users.

There already is an EV tax that likely was not included in the calculations…

 

[KLB]

There already is an EV tax that likely was not included in the calculations…

Probably because it varies so much state to state.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I got to play in a focus group again. NDA in place so pardon me for being light on details. Someone is considering a new hybrid power train that has the potential to be pretty interesting if the power numbers and economy numbers presented pan out at the MSRP estimated. Obviously they don't tell you how far along in R&D this sort of thing is or what the odds are it will ever become a reality. I get to do this on occasion and it's actually kind of fun to see the ideas they are considering, and not just for drive trains or even tech stuff but just making mundane options more useful. Think like when cars started getting cup holders, not a tech innovation but certainly an ergonomic upgrade.

The relevance here is over the time frame I've been doing this, I've seen a decline in questions about EV power trains and in increase in hybrids in various configurations, a few of which I think would have pretty broad appeal.

 

[jamil]

I might be open to the idea of a plug in hybrid, as long as it's not subsidized by the government. If a market can't make it on it's own merit without government intervention, let it die. To incubate new technologies without government intervention, let private investors subsidize early phases of adoption.

 

[JCSR]

Here ya go....

2024 Toyota Prius Prime | Toyota.com

Power your drive with the 2024 Prius Prime, and visit the official Toyota website to check out the features of this eye-catching Toyota plug-in hybrid.

www.toyota.com

 

[smokingman]

*edit until I can find the original toyota press release from 3 weeks ago.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I might be open to the idea of a plug in hybrid, as long as it's not subsidized by the government. If a market can't make it on it's own merit without government intervention, let it die. To incubate new technologies without government intervention, let private investors subsidize early phases of adoption.

Of all the things we subsidize, keeping a technological lead and a strong manufacturing base seems very much in line with 'for the common good.' Semi-rhetorical, as I don't care enough to debate it, but what do you think the US's place in the world would be, and what your standard of living would look like, if we didn't have joint gov't/private ventures, things like NASA and DARPA feeding tech back in to the private sector, subsidizing energy exploration/extraction, etc.? Are we going to pretend ICE hasn't been subsidized, oil exploration hasn't been subsidized, manufacturing of the same hasn't been subsidized? What do you think China's place would look like if they had done exactly what they have done and INGOtarians got their gov't you could drown in a bathtub notion of what a modern economy looks like?

Again, don't care enough to debate it.

 

[jamil]

Of all the things we subsidize, keeping a technological lead and a strong manufacturing base seems very much in line with 'for the common good.' Semi-rhetorical, as I don't care enough to debate it, but what do you think the US's place in the world would be, and what your standard of living would look like, if we didn't have joint gov't/private ventures, things like NASA and DARPA feeding tech back in to the private sector, subsidizing energy exploration/extraction, etc.? Are we going to pretend ICE hasn't been subsidized, oil exploration hasn't been subsidized, manufacturing of the same hasn't been subsidized? What do you think China's place would look like if they had done exactly what they have done and INGOtarians got their gov't you could drown in a bathtub notion of what a modern economy looks like?

Again, don't care enough to debate it.

Okay. No debates required. But rebutting what I said and then saying you don't want to debate it doesn't really seem like the best way not to debate it. So here's me not debating it.

Just kidding. But, I think what you rebutted isn't my point. If government wants to give grants to research technology, okay, but things like funding NASA to help foster technological research, isn't the same thing as subsidizing a market for products that people can't afford without the subsidies.

If Tesla can't can't make EV's cheaply enough to turn a profit while selling them for what people can afford, it's too bad. And in terms of new markets, we already have ways to fund those. Private investment.

So, that's not exactly the public/private venture you advocated above. But anyway, public/private ventures between business and government is a key ingredient of fascism. And I'm not trying to attach the f-word to the kinds of partnerships you're talking about. I'm attaching it to the kinds of partnerships I'm talking about, where government helps decide winners and losers in markets according to its own whims. That's not fair to the parts of the market that's not getting the subsidies. Let's just keep government out of that. If product can't survive in the market on its own, it's not yet viable.

 

[Percolater]

If Tesla can't can't make EV's cheaply enough to turn a profit while selling them for what people can afford, it's too bad.

Teslas been turning a profit since 2019.