The President Trump Immigration Thread

[KG1]

Tomorrow.

Buzzkill.

 

[Dead Duck]

Today is Monday?

Didn't I wake up on Tuesday this morning? But.... huh.... Really? I may need to lay off the coffee. I jumped an entire day.

 

[KMaC]

Interesting wording to this headline. https://www.wthr.com/article/only-s...e-stopped-cbp-southern-border-first-half-2018
The NBC writer wants to downplay the need for border security by focusing on the fact that the number of terrorists stopped at the southern border is lower than the 4000 figure that Trump is citing.
If we have another significant terror attack on the scale of 9-11 that headline will be changed to "SIX terrorists in six months! Why didn't we do something?" I find a terrorist a month to be a troubling figure.
I guess its a matter of perspective.
And why were 41 US citizens that are on a terrorist list trying to re-enter the US from Mexico? Vacations?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Interesting wording to this headline. https://www.wthr.com/article/only-s...e-stopped-cbp-southern-border-first-half-2018
The NBC writer wants to downplay the need for border security by focusing on the fact that the number of terrorists stopped at the southern border is lower than the 4000 figure that Trump is citing.
If we have another significant terror attack on the scale of 9-11 that headline will be changed to "SIX terrorists in six months! Why didn't we do something?" I find a terrorist a month to be a troubling figure.
I guess its a matter of perspective.
And why were 41 US citizens that are on a terrorist list trying to re-enter the US from Mexico? Vacations?

Actually the article is very poorly written. There's no way to make heads or tails of what is being said. Were the people stopped actually "terrorists," or simply suspected terrorists? Were they stopped trying to enter illegally or legally? If 4000 terrorists were stopped (which is dubious), then should we assume we got them all.... which would imply that current border security is pretty damn good... and if we didn't stop them all, over the past few years, what are they doing now? Just waiting for the right moment to mount an attack, or leaving it to actual US citizens to carry out attacks, until there's a drop off, where they can pick up the slack?
Has there been an actual terrorist attack, by persons who are actual "terrorists," who have entered the US illegally?

 

[ghitch75]

Actually the article is very poorly written. There's no way to make heads or tails of what is being said. Were the people stopped actually "terrorists," or simply suspected terrorists? Were they stopped trying to enter illegally or legally? If 4000 terrorists were stopped (which is dubious), then should we assume we got them all.... which would imply that current border security is pretty damn good... and if we didn't stop them all, over the past few years, what are they doing now? Just waiting for the right moment to mount an attack, or leaving it to actual US citizens to carry out attacks, until there's a drop off, where they can pick up the slack?
Has there been an actual terrorist attack, by persons who are actual "terrorists," who have entered the US illegally?

yes this just says nothing more than Trump lies.......that is what the lib base wants....

 

[Kutnupe14]

yes this just says nothing more than Trump lies.......that is what the lib base wants....

Well we know he lies, so that's not exactly a newsflash. I'm more concerned about him attempting a power grab that would irreparably harm the union.

 

[jamil]

A politician lies about stuff and we don't go ape**** until it's a politician we don't like.

To get to 4000 terrorists he needs to call people terrorists who may not actually be terrorists.

To get to a basket of deplorables she needed to call people deplorable who may not actually have been deplorable.

To get to bitter clingers for disagreeing with his majesty, he needed to call people bitter clingers who may not actually have been bitter or clingers.

Politicians put people in boxes for political reasons. It's effective marketing. It's also dishonest.

That Trump stretches the truth is obvious, but unless you're on record for complaining about truth-stretching across the board, it sounds mostly like partisan complaints. It's okay when my side does it, but I'll go ape**** when your side does it. Not convincing.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Just out of curiosity, if Trump puts his "national emergency" plan into action and has the military build a wall, what happens to those folks that own property where the path of the wall would travel? Does the govt invoke imminent domain, and have the military seize their land, solely on the president's order?

Not sure thats thats a good look /purple

 

[KG1]

Just out of curiosity, if Trump puts his "national emergency" plan into action and has the military build a wall, what happens to those folks that own property where the path of the wall would travel? Does the govt invoke imminent domain, and have the military seize their land, solely on the president's order?

Not sure thats thats a good look /purple

Don’t worry. It’ll all be challenged in court. The wall will never happen without Dem approval.

 

[mmpsteve]

Don’t worry. It’ll all be challenged in court. The wall will never happen without Dem approval.

And some little judge in Hawaii will nix the whole thing because .... he can. Really irritates me that any Fed Judge has more power than the POTUS.

.

 

[T.Lex]

Really irritates me that any Fed Judge has more power than the POTUS.

Andrew Jackson agrees.

 

[BugI02]

Actually the article is very poorly written. There's no way to make heads or tails of what is being said. Were the people stopped actually "terrorists," or simply suspected terrorists? Were they stopped trying to enter illegally or legally? If 4000 terrorists were stopped (which is dubious), then should we assume we got them all.... which would imply that current border security is pretty damn good... and if we didn't stop them all, over the past few years, what are they doing now? Just waiting for the right moment to mount an attack, or leaving it to actual US citizens to carry out attacks, until there's a drop off, where they can pick up the slack?
Has there been an actual terrorist attack, by persons who are actual "terrorists," who have entered the US illegally?

Counts depend on parameters. How much higher might that terrorist count be if members or suspected members of Mara Salvatrucha or the 18th Street Gang were included. Perhaps we were relying on the word of a friendly nation (El Salvador) that MS-13 is indeed a terrorist organization

MS-13 as a Terrorist Organization: Risks for Central American Asylum Seekers | Michigan Law Review
MS-13 as a Terrorist Organization: Risks for Central American Asylum Seekers

In 2015, El Salvador’s supreme court officially designated MS‑13 as a terrorist organization.”[24] The court defined terrorism as “the organized and systematic exercise of violence . . . [that] seeks to intimidate the general population, control populated territories, to compel the government to negotiate concessions.”[25] As a designated terrorist organization, the Salvadoran government can impose stricter prison sentences for MS‑13’s members: “[t]errorism charges carry maximum penalties of up to 60 years, compared to up to 20 years for homicide or up to 50 years for aggravated homicide.”[26]


In the United States, the secretary of state, in consultation with the attorney general and secretary of the treasury, has the authority to designate groups as “Foreign Terrorist Organizations” or “FTOs.”[27] A group can be designated as an FTO if (1) it is a foreign organization, (2) it engages in terrorist activity or terrorism, and (3) the terrorist activity or terrorism threatens the security of U.S. nationals or the United States.[28] The definition of terrorism referenced in the statute is “premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents.”[29] Although MS‑13 is clearly a foreign organization that threatens U.S. nationals and national security, the “politically motivated” aspect of the terrorism definition would be the largest obstacle to designating the group an FTO. This is because MS‑13 has long been regarded a criminal organization motivated by financial gain, rather than a political one with a specific ideology. But the statute only requires that the group engage in “terrorist activity”[30] (which is not necessarily political) or “terrorism” (which is defined as political).[31]

Additionally, Department of Homeland Security (DHS) officials (including asylum officers) and immigration judges have a back-door mechanism to label gangs as terrorist organizations, even without an official designation from the Secretary of State. The 2001 USA PATRIOT Act expanded the terrorist-related grounds of inadmissibility to the United States and created specific “tiers” of terrorist organizations.[36] Under the PATRIOT Act, “Tier III” terrorist organizations do not need to be designated by the Secretary of State or another head of a government agency.[37] A “terrorist organization” is “two or more individuals, whether organized or not” who engage in terrorist activity.[38]


“Terrorist activity” is defined broadly and could apply to many MS‑13 activities including hijacking, kidnapping or threatening to kill for ransom or concession from a third party, assassinating, using arms for any purpose other than monetary gain, or threatening to commit any of those acts.[39] MS‑13 could therefore easily be designated as a terrorist organization by adjudicators even now under the broad definition of terrorist activity in U.S. law without an official designation from the secretary of state.

You seem ... incurious ... about whether any rational explanations for the divergence from your worldview of what you label as Trump's lies exist

 

[Trigger Time]

Well we know he lies, so that's not exactly a newsflash. I'm more concerned about him attempting a power grab that would irreparably harm the union.

The Democrats want to dissolve the union so what does he have to lose? Let's get this party started

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Kellyanne Conway says there are no plans to declare a national emergency this evening.

 

[Trigger Time]

Just out of curiosity, if Trump puts his "national emergency" plan into action and has the military build a wall, what happens to those folks that own property where the path of the wall would travel? Does the govt invoke imminent domain, and have the military seize their land, solely on the president's order?

Not sure thats thats a good look /purple

The military can do that in an emergency so I'm gonna say yes

 

[Kutnupe14]

The military can do that in an emergency so I'm gonna say yes

I dare say that members of the military that seize the private property of American citizens, on the whim of the president, probably have forgotten what their oath meant.

 

[T.Lex]

I think that's a different thing.

In an emergency situation, the CINC can either buy or commandeer necessary materials (with compensation to be paid later). In this day and age, it is mostly buy. (Probably from companies he's invested in.)

They don't have to seize the materials, that's only one option.

 

[d.kaufman]

I dare say that members of the military that seize the private property of American citizens, on the whim of the president, probably have forgotten what their oath meant.

I dont know the facts but i would almost guess there's already an existing perimeter along the boarder that the fed gov owns. Like an easement along most streets that local gov owns and is really not your property even though its possible you as the owner maintains it.

On the last part of your statement, please name a politician that takes their oath to protect the constitution and serve the people seriously. I cant think of a single one in this day and age

 

[Trigger Time]

I dare say that members of the military that seize the private property of American citizens, on the whim of the president, probably have forgotten what their oath meant.

As per law I'm sure theyd be compensated. Also it would be a lawful order so unless any of those members want to be in a military prison and convicted, I'd follow the orders of the officers above them that come from the Commander In Chief.
I'm sure this isn't going to be people being dragged out of their homes in the middle of the night type of project.
People can thank Congress (for decades back) that its come down to this. The largest useless body of individuals in this country. Our government is failing to keep its end of the bargain with the American People. Time for the states to take back control through a constitutional convention.

 

[Trigger Time]

I dont know the facts but i would almost guess there's already an existing perimeter along the boarder that the fed gov owns. Like an easement along most streets that local gov owns and is really not your property even though its possible you as the owner maintains it.

On the last part of your statement, please name a politician that takes their oath to protect the constitution and serve the people seriously. I cant think of a single one in this day and age

Exactly and we need to start locking them up when they dont keep it.
In the old days they would have been tarred and feathered by now. Since this is 2019, we need to have them thrown in jail